Follow The Brand Podcast with Host Grant McGaugh

Daring to Heal with Denzil Ross President South Central Region Indiana University Health

• Grant McGaugh CEO 5 STAR BDM • Season 6 • Episode 32

Share episode

Send us a text

Venture with us as we uncover the profound stories and strategies behind the success of healthcare luminary Denzil Ross, President of the South Central Region at Indiana University Health, whose journey from the idyllic shores of Trinidad and Tobago to the bustling corridors of Midwest healthcare institutions embodies innovation and leadership. Denzil shares his experiences with advanced technologies and lean methodologies that are reshaping patient care delivery. This episode not only traces Denzil's inspiring ascent but also delves into the vital role of executive presence and the conscious development of diverse leadership teams that echo the multifaceted communities they serve.

If you're fascinated by the fusion of healthcare and technology, you'll find Denzil's insights on the transition from paper to electronic medical records and the burgeoning role of AI in healthcare nothing short of revelatory. His technical prowess has been crucial in navigating these monumental shifts, serving as a testament to the power of bridging the gap between the languages of healthcare and technology. The conversation extends to the impact of diversity in leadership, emphasizing how varied perspectives and backgrounds can drive innovation and adaptability in the complex arena of healthcare.

Finally, we spotlight the significance of leadership development programs, such as the Elevate cohort and the Leverage Network fellowship, in cultivating the next echelon of Black healthcare leaders. Denzil recounts the intrinsic value of mentorship and strategic networking, underscoring how these programs shape professionals who are not just ready to lead but poised to transform the industry. As we wrap up, we extend an invitation to join the burgeoning community and continue the conversation at the upcoming National Association of Health Services Executives event, promising a beacon of support and enrichment for minority leaders in healthcare.

Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Follow The Brand! We hope you enjoyed learning about the latest marketing trends and strategies in Personal Branding, Business and Career Development, Financial Empowerment, Technology Innovation, and Executive Presence. To keep up with the latest insights and updates from us, be sure to follow us at 5starbdm.com. See you next time on Follow The Brand!

Speaker 1:

Welcome to another episode of Follow the Brand. I am your host, grant McGaughan, ceo of 5 Star BDM, a 5 Star personal branding and business development company. I want to take you on a journey that takes another deep dive into the world of personal branding and business development using compelling personal story, business conversations and tips. Development using compelling personal story, business conversations and tips to improve your personal brand. By listening to the Follow the Brand podcast series, you will be able to differentiate yourself from the competition and allow you to build trust with prospective clients and employers. You never get a second chance to make a first impression. Make it one that will set you apart, build trust and reflect who you are. Developing your five-star personal brand is a great way to demonstrate your skills and knowledge. If you have any questions from me or my guests, please email me at grantmcgaw, spelled M-C-G-A-U-G-H at 5starbdm B for brand, d for development, m for masterscom. Now let's begin with our next five-star episode on Follow the Brand. Welcome to the Follow the Brand podcast, where we explore the stories of exceptional leaders who craft the future with their insights and action. I am your host, grant McGaugh, ceo of Five Star BDM, where we help you to build a five-star brand that people will follow, and today we are dwelling into the world of healthcare innovation with a luminary in the field, denzil Ross. Denzil serves as the president of the South Central Region of Indiana University Health. With a profound journey that began in the vibrant landscape of Trinidad and Tobago, denzil has navigated through various sectors of healthcare, leaving his mark as a pioneer of transformative leadership. His work spans over dynamic roles where he has driven substantial advancements in healthcare access and quality, touching the lives of many. As the president of the South Central Region of IU Health, denzil's leadership is not just about overseeing a vast network of facilities. It is about redefining healthcare delivery through strategic innovation and an unwavering commitment to the community. From integrating cutting-edge technologies to enhancing operational efficiencies, his initiatives aim to propel Indiana toward becoming one of the healthiest states in the nation. Today, denzil joins us to share his insight on overcoming the complexities of modern healthcare, his strategic use of AI and lean methodologies, and how he cultivates leadership that fosters diversity, equity and inclusion. So, as we dive into this enriching conversation with Denzel Ross, a leader who embodies the spirit of innovation and compassionate care, let us welcome Denzel to the award-winning Follow Brand Podcast, where we are building a five-star brand that you can follow.

Speaker 1:

Welcome everybody to the Follow Brand Podcast. This is Grant McGaugh, and I get to go to the Midwest. A lot of people know that originally I am from Omaha, nebraska. That is the true Midwest, as they call it, but there's a place called Indiana In Indiana I don't know if they call it the Atlantic, the Mideast, but it ain't too far away.

Speaker 1:

We're going to talk to a senior executive that I've come to know for the last couple of years, denzel Ross. He's a wonderful, wonderful guy. He's telling me he's from the Caribbean. You would not know that by looking at him, but this guy is telling me he's coming from the Caribbean. Then he did some time out in Kansas City, so he knows the Midwest culture. We're going to have a conversation today about executive presence and how that you, you gain that. How do you make that, that journey, that career journey? When you're first getting out of school, you're first getting that first job and you're getting some opportunity, but then you start to be tapped for opportunities for, for growth high potential, as they call it. You have high potential to actually get into a situation that you can actually lead, become a leader in an organization. I want to talk through that with Denzel and have an opportunity Before that. Would you like to introduce yourself?

Speaker 2:

Sure Grant. As always, such a pleasure to connect with you and thank you for having me. My name is Denzel Ross. I am the president for the South Central Region of Indiana University Health, based here in Bloomington. I was in Tucson, Arizona, spent some time out in New Mexico, San Antonio, Texas and Kansas City with multiple different organizations of different sizes, and it's just been an awesome experience, an awesome ride, and so I am excited about the opportunity to share some of my learnings that I've had along the way.

Speaker 1:

So thank you, let's jump right in some of my learnings that I've had along the way. So, thank you, let's jump right in. You know, my nephew just graduated from IU about a year ago as a matter of fact, his four-year bachelor's. He's now back in Chicago. But you know, I saw a little bit of the program. I like what they do out there and I didn't realize it was that close to Indianapolis. So that's very, very interesting. So tell us just a little bit about your background. I gave a little bit of a preview. You know, there's got to be a little bit of a change when you go from growing up in the Caribbean and then making that trek north. Talk to us about that and why you came to the US to start your career.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so I was born and raised in Trinidad and Tobago it's a small Caribbean island, while small Caribbean island is one of the larger Caribbean islands and I was born and raised there, moved to the US when I was 17. Landed in Kansas City, I had two older brothers at the time who were in the Kansas area for college and you know, closer to family the better, and so I decided to make that trek. I was a computer science major so I tell people I'm a nerd by trade and I loved every minute of it. I got to do that at Park University in Parkville, missouri, which is sort of a suburb, if you will, a small area of Kansas City. But you know mom and dad, my sister, they're still back there in Trinidad.

Speaker 2:

I don't get to make a visit too often, but you know they all, as family, played a big part. No-transcript what we currently do. So it's been a fun path. Still don't know how we landed in Kansas. I think the oldest one went and the other two just followed. But we've been blessed with a lot of good people, a lot of good friends who are now from family, that we've been able to build some really good relationships and it's followed us along the way. So it's been a fun ride, a good ride thus far.

Speaker 1:

Well, maybe you wanted to follow the yellow brick road right. Get you out there in.

Speaker 2:

Kansas, there you go, there you go, there you go, good old Kansas City.

Speaker 1:

Oh, and it's a beautiful place. I went to school there. I went to DeVry Institute of Technology in Kansas City, so I know a very good while I grew up in Nebraska. So all those things are very familiar to me. So I want you to talk to me as if I am an up-and-coming executive in the healthcare world and I need to understand the changes in mindset, skill set and talk to me from your experience. Like going from that managerial role to then that director role, then we'll get into that VP role and to that CEO role, those are big changes.

Speaker 2:

The biggest thing about it is scope, scope of responsibility. I believe when you're in a manager role or associate administrator role, you're really focused on the day to day what's happening in those departments, that you have oversight. And as you continue to climb the ladder, if you will, and get to some of those larger, bigger roles see associate administrator, coo, vp of Ops and then a CEO role your scope gets bigger and you have to remove yourself a little bit more from the day-to-day operation and that's when you rely on your team members to get that work done. You have to challenge yourself to be a little bit more strategic, right. And you're thinking one of the things that as a ceo, when I got that opportunity, there were functions that I would do in that, prior to being the ceo, that I wasn't a part of.

Speaker 2:

Right, when you think about physician recruitment, you think about a community presence.

Speaker 2:

Those are the things where I was spending more and more of my time as a CEO doing and sometimes a lot of that happened outside of the hospital, whereas as the COO I was more focused on the operations, working through my team leaders to get that job done. So, as the various positions called for a different level and a different skill set, and so I had the opportunity to hone my skills, whether it be through various measures of learning, whether it be conferences that I would go and listen and hear to others speak, whether it be continuing mentorship relationships, where there are folks that I talk to monthly or quarterly that I could bounce things off of, whether it be education through schooling, different additional degrees or certificates. So there are a number of different ways that you can expose that, and then again, most organizations have some sort of leadership development that you could also tap on. So it's the opportunity that sometimes you know, you look at where you want to go and you have to start to prepare yourself for how you take one of those larger roles with larger strokes.

Speaker 1:

I think that's so important to start thinking ahead. I've learned from talking to a lot of senior executives is that they live in the future for the last. You know that three year, five year, year, five year they're not looking into the now, so to speak. Is that how do I move the organization to 18 months, 36 months? This is where we need to be and position ourselves to get there. I think that takes phenomenal talent. I want you to help me understand when you are looking to fulfill positions within your team or your team of teams, that term high potential candidate, someone who is an operative let's say they're operating as a manager, the potential that it could be in a director role. How do you begin to see those individuals and some of the qualities you're looking for to potentially get somebody promoted?

Speaker 2:

Well, I think it starts with the want right People who want to grow, people who want to be developed, people who want to be coached, and is open to taking on that additional function and additional task, Because the last thing you want to do is put somebody in a position that they don't want to be in, right. I think that's a recipe for failure. They don't want to be here. I think that's a recipe for failure. So we're looking for you know, I love the term hungry, humble and smart. Those are the type of people that I want to look for that they're hungry enough that they want more, they want to grow, they want to be developed. They're raising their hand saying, hey, I want that next position. Allow me the opportunity to grow and stretch myself. Smart enough that sometimes they're willing to take on tasks that they may not have experience with, right, but they're smart enough to do the work and quickly become leaders in that area of subject matter, experts or, more importantly, smart enough to put the people around them who could speak to it and be the expert in the room. So that's the hungry part, the smart part, and then humble enough to sometimes say, hey, I don't know how to do this. I don't know how to fix this, but I'm going to put the work in again to figure out how we do this. I don't know how to fix this, but I'm going to put the work in again to figure out how we fix this. Trigger us, how we move a metric increase or decrease, depending on what we're talking about. And so I think it starts with that grouping of humble, hungry and smart.

Speaker 2:

Then I think it's incumbent on leaders like myself that it's important that we grow diverse teams, and I think here, more and more, we're seeing that it's not just about having a team that looks different, but we're finding that diversity is good for business, and what I mean by that is when we have people of diverse backgrounds, diverse voice, because of their experience, where they're from.

Speaker 2:

It widens the way that we think about our business and it gives us the opportunity to do things, maybe sometimes outside of the status quo, and I think when we're able to do that, it brings efficiencies, it brings improvements, it brings the ability for us to be really good at what we do.

Speaker 2:

And so we're looking for that, because if we're continuing to do things the way that we've always done it, when we know healthcare is an ever-changing world.

Speaker 2:

If we're continue to do things the way that we've always done it, when we know healthcare is an ever changing world, if we're not changing, in some cases ahead of the time, if we're fighting to keep up and we're one step behind the game, then we find ourselves constantly uh in this, in this uh circle where we're spinning the mud and we don't find ourselves going anywhere. So those are the type of people that I love to work with on my teams, and I'm looking at the same thing from them to challenge me, to grow, to be better and make sure that we are creating diverse teams to do the work. It's also important as well to me that in many cases, when we talk about having more leadership, mirror the teams that we serve, or even, in a lot of places, having more leadership over our hospitals mirror the communities that we serve. So it's even more important that we create those environments and create those opportunities so that we can really think about how do we serve the community as a whole.

Speaker 1:

This is so important, very important discussion, and I know we've had this talk in the past. When you first were in school, you took up computer science. You were the quote-unquote tech nerd and then you got inspired through talking. You know, you saw what Barack Obama was doing at that time and changing the healthcare system to a meaningful use and you knew that it was going to be, you know, more technically focused than it ever had been in the past and you said you know what I'm going to make it pivot and get your MAJ and you know, along with your technical background, go out and begin your career journey as you think through that, having that technological lens. How has that helped you to transverse in your career journey? Ready to elevate your brand with five-star impact?

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the Firebrand Podcast, your gateway to exceptional personal growth and innovative business strategies. Join me as I unveil the insider strategies of industry pioneers and branding experts. Discover how to supercharge your business development. Harness the power of AI for growth and sculpt a personal brand that stands out in the crowd. Transform ambition into achievement. Explore more at FirestarBDMcom for a wealth of resources. Ignite your journey with our brave brand blueprint and begin crafting your standout Firestar teacher today.

Speaker 2:

You've been doing your homework man. Today You've been doing your homework man. You know there's positions along the way that I have had that had I not had a technical background, I don't think that I've been able to be as successful as I've had. As you know, I started my career there in Kansas City at Truman Medical Centers. John Bluford was the CEO at the time and continues to be a great mentor of mine.

Speaker 2:

Shortly after I started, truman Medical Centers started going through their full electronic medical record automation electronic medical record automation and so I believe in my second year there, I was part of the team that helped that entire organization transition from paper records to electronic records, fast track to where we are today and we've seen the likes of AI continue to have a presence in just about everything that we do. And the opportunity, as I look back then, to be able to become a subject matter expert and help that organization do that effectively and efficiently, I think was an amazing learning opportunity for me, because I was at the forefront on it, because I understood it, being able to, if you will, speak both languages Right so I'm on the health care side to understand how we operate and how we do things and then at the same time, I'm able to help translate that sometimes into IT or technical terminology that is loaded very well for me. And so now we see the use of AI technology that's all over our healthcare systems, where when I started man, it was a tough program trying to get an entire organization to embrace moving from paper to using a computer. Now, at the base or the foundation of our electronic medical records, we have tons of different AI programs decision support making that are helping our clinicians make faster and better decisions on how we care for patients. So it's come a very long way on how we care for patients. So it's come a very long way and my ability to now embrace it because I love it.

Speaker 2:

I've been in organizations that every time there was an IT project I was raising my hand saying, look, let me pilot it at my hospital. When I was at the HCA at Overland Park Regional Medical Center, we had an amazing opportunity to be one of four sites in the country within HCA to create our first smart room and we partnered with an organization that everything from your badge when you walk into your room, your picture and your title showed up on the patient's room the doctor could screencast from his laptop or her laptop into the patient's room to then walk them through their surgery, show them pictures. The patient had an iPad that they could control the lights, turn the shower, order their meal, you know. And so that's where healthcare has been going from an IT perspective, and so I think having the knack for it, the love for it, being able to embrace it, has definitely helped me along the way.

Speaker 1:

I can see that that is so true. Indiana University as an academic medical center, it's got to give you some exposure to other things as you transverse through your career or other organizations. Now you're there where they're developing more innovative ideas to help the healthcare delivery system and then you can actually begin to get. But talk to us of some things that you've got going on there at IU that you might want to share with us.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you know it's an exciting time. You know we continue to work very closely with the university as we build out a regional academic health center, and so it's not just the idea of a community hospital but more about how can we partner closely with the university, help create residency programs. That way we are training and educating more doctors so that we can build out the way that we care, increase access for the population, help care, increase access for the population. How do we think about the total care of all patients, research, clinical trials, all of those things having it in one location so that we could meet the needs of the community in multiple different ways.

Speaker 2:

The university, man, they are just an amazing hub, as you can imagine, for the work they're doing to prepare the next level of leaders, their use of technology, very forward thinking. You know, even if I take a step back and you think about now, you know our surgical residents. They are training on robots, right, and so they're coming out saying, look, I've spent my last three, four, five years training on robots using technology. I want to go to a place where I could use that, and so, through their partnership, we could say, look, we could create those environments for your students, for your medical students, for your residents that could come out, operate and train at a very high level and create those spaces that they want is something that will continue to build for the next couple of years, because there's a lot of pieces involved in that, but that's front of mind for me and I think that's very exciting.

Speaker 2:

And then our partnerships across the state. You know, iu Health has said we are going to make Indiana one of the healthier states in this country, and that is a very bold statement that this organization stands by and we're doing a lot of the work to get us there. And, of course, it's a long journey, right, because we're already looking at what does our 2030 plan looks like and what are the things that we need to put in place today. So it's an amazing partnership. We have a lot of things in place that we're focused and working on and as we continue to push the envelope with a great partner in IU and that partnership, I think, is only going to continue to grow. So I'm excited.

Speaker 1:

I'm very excited as well. I just was at the HEMS conference that's Health Informatics Systems Society in Hedden, orlando, and one of the different sessions I was able to moderate and lead and they featured a group from Indiana and they were talking about sickle cell disease in the community and how they were spearheading this and using technology to get predictive analytics, to understand methodologies, to get information in front of clinicians, clinicians and things of this nature to understand the disease holistically. This is incredible and I like your partnership that you're talking about in iu. You're here to transform health care delivery. Let's make it better. It's not time for the status quo.

Speaker 1:

Ai, as you just talked about is, is a game changer, just like EHR records were back 10, 15 years ago. It's going to fundamentally change how we engage from a human to even human interface. Having that technological layer right enable the tool right. So this is critical. Okay, just like we began this discussion from a leadership standpoint, if you were mentoring an administrator that, first of all, has high potential to grow, they have some of the skill sets and emotional intelligence that it takes to lead. What are some of the things that you encourage them to do to be able to be a part of this new technological shift that's taking place in healthcare.

Speaker 2:

Well, first you have to embrace it. I think there's AI, there's technology. That are pieces of just about everything that we do and we have to learn. While it can be scary I can see that if not used appropriately, I think we have to embrace it, the direction that our world is going in. It's not a matter of if, but it's a matter of when, and so being able to be at the forefront, be able to put some framework around it as much as we can, we have to be able to embrace it.

Speaker 2:

I think the other thing, too, from a leadership perspective for up-and-coming leaders you have to be able to execute. That's very important, right? So, whatever it is that you're working on, you have to be able to drive results, and I believe in all world, data is king. Everything that we do, we make decisions off of informatics, we make a decision off of data, and so a big part of that is IT and what that could gather for us. So, being able to use it to our benefit, get the numbers, being able to understand trends and what our numbers are telling us, being able to formulate a plan off of that and then take it from A to Z I think that's what it all comes down to. The ability to produce, and produce in the right way at the right time, is going to be key and just one of many factors that I think puts you on a platform to be recognized. Uh, a platform to be recognized, uh.

Speaker 2:

As I look at my background, my path, I wouldn't have gotten the next job had I not been successful in the one I had at that time.

Speaker 2:

And so, while I wasn't working with the mindset of I need to get this done so that I can get this next job, I knew that it was important to me to be able to execute and do a good job.

Speaker 2:

And then you know, we're in a world already where, like you mentioned, we want to be able to challenge the status quo and look at places or areas that we may not have ventured into from a care perspective, right, and think about what can we do to better serve our community. One of the amazing opportunities that I have as part of the South Central region is really getting into rural health. We have hospitals that still have kitchen posts outside of their hospitals and their clinics. People come to the hospital on horses, right, because of where the hospital is located and the care they provide, the way that we provide that care may look very different. The way we provide care in Indianapolis right, the way we provide care in Indianapolis right, and so being able to cater to the population, cater to that community in a way that they want to be cared for, takes some time, some out of that box.

Speaker 1:

Thank you 100%. Personalized care is key as we move forward. People want that and you've got to have customizations that are in line, aligned with your customer base, your client, your potential patients, and there's got to be alignment there and an extension of healthcare beyond just the four walls of the hospital. That is more of a community umbrella. I think you're doing that. I think that's wonderful. Before I leave you, I wanted to ask you this from a personal brand perspective, an executive leadership perspective, and understand. Someone asked you you know how do you define your brand and what were some of the best leadership programs that you got involved in that actually helped you to develop your brand?

Speaker 2:

You know, I've had amazing opportunities through connection with mentors. That has helped me develop that brand over the course of the years. I believe, when I think about myself as a leader, I want to be someone that thought of you as you think, about your legacy, what you leave behind and, when it's all said and done, what are you going to be remembered for? I want to be remembered for being an authentic leader. I know that continues to be thrown around and at times may seem very cliche, but there's true value in authenticity and being an authentic leader. Being able to influence change, and change in a changing society is key to the person that you are. You know here recently, as I joined this organization. We recently went through the process of doing all CliftonStrengths and I've done it many, many years ago and sort of forgot what my DNA looked like, but it was fun being able to do it again and I challenged my team that had probably about 70 people in the room that we're going to claim it, name it and aim it. I am the type of leader that I am. I'm going to claim it and say, yes, that's who I am. I'm going to put a name to it authentic leader. I want to be a dynamic, transformational leader, and then I'm going to aim it. I told my team this is what I'm going to do about it and I'm not trying to be someone else that I'm not but what I am going to do is, as I learn my other team members and their strengths, I want to put myself around people that when there's opportunity for me to be stronger, I want to lean on my team member who might be strong in that one area, and I think that's how you create balance, that's how you create a diverse team of people who work well together.

Speaker 2:

As I think back some of the programs that I've had the opportunity to be part of here, most recently, about a year ago now, maybe a little bit more I had the honor of being selected into the Elevate cohort number two, and with that, for those of you who don't know, the Elevate was a program that was founded by a number of amazing Black hospital leaders across the country, a lot of them who have been stalwarts in our industry for many years, and they looked at the pipeline and said look, how are we creating leadership opportunities to help Black leaders grow to be prepared for that next level? They just started with cohort three, and this is in collaboration with the National Association for Health Service Executives, the HSE, and it was an amazing year spent with seven other amazing leaders, you know, and when I think about them, I continue to think about the phrase iron sharpens, iron, iron right. I was in the room with an amazing group of people who were wanting to do more, wanting to push themselves, wanting to be better. I learned from them, they learned from me, and we continued to push each other and that was just an amazing experience and we were able to spend time with those amazing leaders. I'm not going to try to name them all because I'll forget somebody, but just amazing black hospital executives across the country came together to give up their time and their energy to be able to build us.

Speaker 2:

Another one that comes to mind was the Leverage Network. You know, being part of that fellowship as well was another opportunity for me to hone my leadership skills With both of these organizations. It gave me the opportunity to build a bigger network. You know we haven't really touched on that, but that is such a huge part of the preparation and getting ready for that. Next level is building your network of people that you can rely on. So again two very that's two of many, but two here that have been very recent for me. That has really helped me hone in my leadership skills and prepare me for that next level.

Speaker 1:

This has been a wonderful, wonderful, wonderful, wonderful. We want to double down on that. Mentorship. Key stakeholders understand those key stakeholders Understand that you have to deliver results. And how do you deliver those results? What are your objectives that you're trying to achieve and that you get buy-in from, from your network, from your stakeholders, to be able to be effective in what you are doing?

Speaker 1:

This has been wonderful, denzel, and I want you to first give us what's the best way for people to contact you if it's through LinkedIn and they want to do a follow-up and then follow you. You know, so follow you on this IU journey. The other thing I want to do a follow-up and then follow you. You know, follow you on this IU journey. The other thing I want to see you down here in Fort Lauderdale. I know it's in October and I know you've got some things going on. We're going to be down here with the National Association of Health Services Executives, from a national perspective in Fort Lauderdale. I'm going to be there. Love to have you or your team Come on down and celebrate with us. How about that?

Speaker 2:

Hey, I'm hopeful that I can make it work. I'm looking at the calendar already. I'm excited about the great things that they're doing. It's just amazing what they continue to do for Black and minority leaders within healthcare. But for your folks out there would love to connect with you because there's a lot of people that I learned from as well. I look at what they're doing and LinkedIn has been a great opportunity for me to do that and connect with other people as well, so we'd love to connect with as many people as possible, learn from our best practices, what people are doing that working as I continue my leadership journey as well.

Speaker 1:

All right, this has been wonderful. Look up Denzel Ross on LinkedIn. Just like it sounds D-E-N-Z-I-L Ross. He's the only one out there with that name. You can continue to tune into all the episodes on Follow Brand at 5 Star BDM. That is B for Brand, d for Development and for Masterscom. This has been wonderful. Thank you so much for spending time for me on the show today.

Speaker 2:

Hey, Grant, thank you so much for all that you do. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1:

You're welcome. Thanks for joining us on the Follow Brand Podcast. Big thanks to Full Effect Productions for their incredible support on each and every episode. Now the journey continues on our YouTube channel. Follow Brand TV Series Dive into exclusive interviews, extended content and bonus insights that will fuel your success. Subscribe now and be a part of our growing community sharing and learning together. Subscribe now and be a part of our growing community sharing and learning together. Explore, engage and elevate at Follow Brand TV Series on YouTube. Stay connected, stay inspired. Until next time, we will continue building a five-star brand that you can follow.