Follow The Brand Podcast with Host Grant McGaugh

Oncology's Game-Changer: Inside Dr. McAneny's Mission to Keep Cancer Patients Home & Grant McGaugh

• Grant McGaugh CEO 5 STAR BDM • Season 6 • Episode 37

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What if there was a way to reduce hospital stays for cancer patients by up to 30%? Discover the transformative power of Dr. Barbara McAneny's groundbreaking initiative, Come Home, designed to keep cancer patients at home while enhancing their quality of life. Join us as Dr. McAneny, a former president of the American Medical Association and pioneering oncologist, shares her journey into oncology, driven by the strength and resilience of her patients. Her compassionate approach and innovative models are setting new standards in cancer care.

Explore the vital topic of healthcare accessibility as Dr. McAneny discusses her commitment to serving rural and underserved communities, particularly in New Mexico. She advocates for a healthcare system overhaul that prioritizes prevention and holistic care. Drawing from her experiences with the Come Home community oncology medical home model, Dr. McAneny sheds light on how proactive patient management can significantly improve patient outcomes and reduce hospitalizations. She also previews her upcoming speaking engagement at the Women's Health Oncology event, where she will champion the need for systemic changes in health policy.

In our final discussion, we delve into the future of oncology, emphasizing the role of digital tools and the critical importance of human empathy in medical practice. Learn about the OnCare Alliance, a network of independent oncology practices committed to collaborative care and supporting both doctors and patients. Dr. McAneny also touches on the emotional challenges faced by physicians, the significance of mental health therapies for cancer patients, and effective communication strategies. This episode is a heartfelt conversation that challenges conventional cancer care models, advocating for a more compassionate, patient-centered approach.

Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Follow The Brand! We hope you enjoyed learning about the latest marketing trends and strategies in Personal Branding, Business and Career Development, Financial Empowerment, Technology Innovation, and Executive Presence. To keep up with the latest insights and updates from us, be sure to follow us at 5starbdm.com. See you next time on Follow The Brand!

Speaker 1:

Welcome to another episode of Follow the Brand. I am your host, grant McGaugh, ceo of 5 Star BDM, a 5 Star personal branding and business development company. I want to take you on a journey that takes another deep dive into the world of personal branding and business development, using compelling personal story, business conversations and tips to improve your personal brand. By listening to the Follow the Brand podcast series, you will be able to differentiate yourself from the competition and allow you to build trust with prospective clients and employers. You never get a second chance to make a first impression. Make it one that will set you apart, build trust and reflect who you are. Developing your five-star personal brand is a great way to demonstrate your skills and knowledge. If you have any questions from me or my guests, please email me. At. Grantmcgaw spelled M-C-G-A-U-G-H at 5starbdm B for brand, d for development, m for masterscom. Now let's begin with our next five-star episode on Follow the Brand. Welcome to the Follow Brand Podcast. I am your host, grant McGaugh, ceo of Five Star BDM, where we help you build a five-star brand that people will follow, and today we have a remarkable guest whose work redefines how we approach cancer care. And for those who are new to our show. Bdm stands for Brand Development Mastery, a concept we believe is critical not only in business but also in advancing the fields of healthcare and patient care. And today I am excited to introduce Dr Barbara McAnee. Former president of the American Medical Association and a trailblazer in oncology, she has spearheaded a patient-centered initiative known as Come Home, the community oncology medical home, which aims to keep cancer patients where they truly belong, and that is, at home, surrounded by loved ones, instead of in hospital beds. Dr McEnany will share how her approach focuses on proactive personalized care, intervening early to prevent complications before they escalate into hospitalization. So this isn't just about cutting costs. It's about improving quality of life and making every moment count for patients who need it most. And consider this Recent studies show that home-based cancer care can reduce hospital stays by up to 30%, while significantly enhancing patient satisfaction. In today's episode, we will dive into how Dr McAnee's initiative achieved these results and reshaped the standard of care in oncology. So prepare for an eye-opening conversation that will challenge our assumptions about cancer care. And after that, so we'd love to hear your thoughts and how we can all contribute to a more compassionate and effective healthcare system. So stay tuned on the Follow Brand Podcast. We are building a five-star brand that you can follow.

Speaker 1:

Welcome everybody to the Follow Brand Podcast. This is Grant McGaugh, and I get to go all the way out to the Southwest. I don't go to Southwest very often, but what I do I'm telling you it's a beautiful, beautiful place. They got all kinds of scenery out there you can't see anywhere else. We're talking about New Mexico and there's one person in particular in New Mexico that we're going to have a really good conversation about. She's a former CEO of the American Medical Association. She's been practicing oncology for a number of years and we want to understand her brand. We want to understand why she chose her health oncology to come and speak to a group of people about women's health in Orlando. It's going to take place in October, but we want to get to know her a little bit. So, dr Barber, would you like to introduce yourself?

Speaker 2:

Certainly, I wasn't the CEO of the American Medical Association. I was the president. The CEO is a person that we have hired who manages the day-to-day. The president is the spokesperson for the American Medical Association and it was a great job to have because I could travel all around the country and talk to physicians in all walks of life, all specialties, everything, and be able to hear about their hopes and their dreams and their frustrations and their burnout and their joy.

Speaker 1:

They kept you busy, I bet.

Speaker 2:

It did keep me busy.

Speaker 1:

So let's talk about your journey into the realm of being a physician, into oncology. As we rewind the clock just a little bit, tell us a little bit about your journey and why you chose this as a profession.

Speaker 2:

Well, when I was in medical school, I did a rotation on the Acute Leukemia ward at the University of Iowa and I fell in love with every patient I took care of, because when you have a cancer patient, they reach into their heart and they find strength. They never knew they had to fight the scariest thing that they have ever fought and they also start to really focus on what's truly important in life and they stop sweating the little stuff. Right, they will. Cancer patients would tell me, even as a medical student, their hopes and dreams and what they were afraid of and what they wish they'd done differently throughout their lives, and usually you don't have those conversations until you've had 20 years of friendship with someone. But with cancer patients they are so open and so strong that I was just inspired by them every minute of the day and I just decided this was the group of people I wanted to work with.

Speaker 1:

Well, that is a great reason why and I agree with you those things, that's your most vulnerable and you start to take away some of the things that we probably take advantage or disadvantage of on a daily basis, about these little nicks and nacks that are going on in life's journey. But when you're facing near, you know you're having a near-death experience or you don't know exactly what's going to happen, you take off the gloves. There's no bar, nothing's barring you from saying whatever it may be. And when you find that special place in your heart and you begin to speak from that location I've seen a lot of people do that I think it's so impressive.

Speaker 1:

They said, wow, you're at, you know, very vulnerable time you got. Time is precious and you're sharing with me some very good intimacy. Maybe it's for me to understand how I can live my life better and move forward. I think that that is wonderful. So you got into leadership. But before we even go there, I want you to tell us a little bit more, because you do some things around hematology. I don't think a lot of people know what that is.

Speaker 2:

Well, most oncologists are board certified in both medical hematology and medical oncology. And oncology rose out of hematology because the first cancers that we were able to treat were the blood cancers lymphomas, leukemias etc. And solid tumors were harder, and so it took a while for oncology to branch out of hematology. But a lot of us will do both. You know, when I started out in my career I wanted to take care of every cancer patient in New Mexico. Obviously that's impossible, but that's what I wanted. But then you start to, after you spend a few years like 10 or 15, really trying to be the best cancer doctor you can be, you start to see patterns and things and that's when you start to develop leadership, saying I can see some of the root causes of what we are facing here and we need to address those as well. And for me that's what stimulated leadership. For example, when I was a brand new baby oncologist and I just had seen a consultation in the hospital, I did a consultation for a gentleman who was 45 years old and had metastatic lung cancer. He had a brand new diagnosis but it was clearly incurable, and I was down in the doctor's lounge after seeing this kind of recuperating and clutching my cup of coffee and I was ranting to some other doctors about why on earth do we sell a product that, when you use it the way you're supposed to on the package insert, it kills you. And so I'm referring, of course, to tobacco.

Speaker 2:

And a crusty old urologist came over to me.

Speaker 2:

He heard this and he said well, are you just going to sit there complaining or are you going to do something? And I said I'm one doctor, what can I do? He said well, I'm appointing you. I'm president of the State Medical Society and I'm appointing you to a committee of people who are interested in trying to curb tobacco use, prevent kids from getting hooked on it, help adults get off tobacco, prevent kids from getting hooked on it, help adults get off tobacco and see if we can't prevent some of these cancers and heart disease and low birth weight babies and all the other problems that tobacco causes.

Speaker 2:

So I'm appointing you to that committee. And so I learned from that that when doctors link arms for the benefit of patients, we are an incredibly powerful voice and it takes a long time. But 10 years later, new Mexico had a clean indoor air act for the entire state, where people have to go huddle outside to smoke and our smoking rates have dropped considerably from that to smoke, and our smoking rates have dropped considerably from that. And I learned from that that leadership means getting in there and doing the work, leading by example, but having the vision of what it is you want to try to accomplish and then pushing forward for that.

Speaker 1:

Very, I am so glad you took that on. I remember when Big Tobacco came under fire and you used to see it in everything. You see it in movies, you see it in the car ads. If you wanted to be the pretty person or the most interesting person, you had to have a cigarette with you, right and who remembers?

Speaker 1:

John Wayne and then, all of a sudden, the Marlboro Maranata is a fucking answer. You're like, whoa, you know, maybe there's something here, but they finally got some legislation done and things started to unravel. You're still like, look, this is bad, this is killing people. We need to really get the message out here. This is not a good product, and I think there's other products even out there right now that we may not be aware of that are critical, especially when it comes to diet exercise. These things can lead to like an oncology episode or something to like that effect, because your immune system could be compromised. Because your immune system could be compromised. Just talk to us a little bit more about the things that you're seeing now, and then some of the innovations that you believe could possibly be impactful.

Speaker 2:

Well for medical innovations, obviously, learning what genes mutate that make a cancer cell different from a normal cell. If you have a breast cell and it's sitting there doing what a breast cell is supposed to do it grows, and then, when it gets older, it dies off. If it mutates and becomes a cancer cell, it doesn't die off, it just grows and grows and grows, just grows and grows and grows. And so now, as we start to learn what are those mutations that occurred in that cell, in that cancer cell's DNA that led it to become immortal, to let it become invasive, now we can take some of those genes and we can target drugs to block them. And this is a way to use the body's own immune system to fight cancer.

Speaker 2:

When I was a medical student, they promised us back then oh, someday the immune system for the patient will fight the cancer.

Speaker 2:

And nothing happened for many years and I thought, yeah, right, but now we're seeing it and it is amazing. You know, we see, you know half of the patients or more that we see now we can cure and the rest we can often prolong their life. Some we can't, but we're still working on things, but it's really made an enormous difference. And the other thing that's made a huge difference with these drugs and with other medicines that help us control the side effects of both cancer and the drugs we use to fight it. That has made the control of cancer so much easier, because people aren't scared to death of nausea and vomiting and patients tell us that their first fear, of course, is dying, but their second fear is nausea and vomiting. And if we can prevent that so that people can get their treatments, people can get their treatments we've made a huge step forward. So both the drugs are better and the support drugs are immensely better. People can have a life and treat their cancer at the same time.

Speaker 1:

It used to be you know when you got the big C. You know you got the big C, and everybody knew that was pretty much, you know it could be over, and you hear a lot of people now that you know the cancer is in remission or even out there in stage three, stage four, they fight on. Sometimes, you know they get diagnosed and you get six months, and now it's been six years. So there's other things that are happening that were before. Maybe not so much, so I like this. Now here's the question, as we look at the population of people and you see this, you know from your lens when you start talking about, you know, health equity and start talking about accessibility and affordability, you know is, though, are those kinds of treatments and diagnosis reaching the greater population, or only a few?

Speaker 2:

I don't think it's reaching as many as it should, and I think there's several factors that we need to think about as a country for this. The first one is there's a shortage of physicians. Almost 20 years ago now, the American Society society of clinical oncology did a study looking at whether or not we were training enough cancer doctors that every patient with cancer could see a cancer specialist. And we weren't, and they figured that there would be a shortfall of about 30 percent. And that was before we started keeping those patients with metastatic disease, those stage four patients, alive for years and years and years, which is very labor intensive. So first of all, we have to look at the shortage and secondly, we have to look at the way our healthcare system has evolved, and this has been the focus of a lot of my personal work.

Speaker 2:

Our health care system, unfortunately, is perfectly designed to make large corporate entities a lot of money and power. Big corporate hospitals, insurance companies, pharmaceutical manufacturers, pharmacy benefit managers, a bunch of consulting firms. They are making a lot of money on health care, but it is increasingly hard to actually get health care to people, particularly poor people, particularly disadvantaged people, people of color, people who do not have the resources to go out and advocate well for themselves. So I think we have a long way to do, but I think that we've got to unstack those odds, because I didn't go into medicine to make a big corporation CEO make millions of dollars in salary. That was just not high on my list of things I was interested in doing. I went into medicine because I wanted to take care of people. It's one of the reasons I came to New Mexico actually Coming to New Mexico, which is a majority-minority state where we not just have diversity but we cherish it and enjoy it and support it and that this was a community where there was a huge need. That's why I came here. It wasn't to make corporate CEOs wealthy. So I think we need to a bit get back to those roots and look at our mission. To figure out what do we want out of health care in the country. To figure out what do we want out of health care in the country the other issues is just geographic. If you live, 40% of Americans live in a rural area. A rural area by choice does not have all the amenities of Boston or New York or Los Angeles, right? They're not going to have huge hospitals and stacks of office buildings full of specialists, and so we have to figure out a way to get care out of those urban areas and get it into the rural areas, Because that 40% of Americans who are rural, as well as the people who live in the disadvantaged areas of our cities, deserve care too. So having people travel to a big urban center just doesn't work.

Speaker 2:

When cancer becomes a chronic disease, you know if you need a surgery one time. You need your heart operated on. You want to go see the guy who operates on your heart and everybody else's heart. You know five times a week, not once a year. I understand that. But the medicines and that we use and the ability of radiation, they actually don't care who's on the other end of the needle or who's pushing the button on that machine. Those things that keep cancer a chronic disease are local, and they should be local because people have. The goal of treating cancer is to have people live their lives while they're treating their cancer well said, well stated, and we've got to take all these things into account.

Speaker 1:

I'm a big believer in improving our health care system and getting back to what it's supposed to do, and that's to keep people healthy throughout the entire life cycle for that individual, so that it gets into prevention. I know you do a lot around policy. You're going to come down to Orlando and speak to women Women's Health Care at Her Health Oncology in October. Why don't you decide to do that and what kind of message do you want to bring to the audience? Ready to elevate your brand with five-star impact? Welcome to the Final Brand Podcast, your gateway to exceptional personal growth and innovative business strategies. Join me as I unveil the insider strategies of industry pioneers and branding experts. Discover how to supercharge your business development. Harness the power of AI for growth and sculpt a personal brand that stands out in the crowd. Transform ambition into achievement. Explore more at FirestarBDMcom for a wealth of resources. Ignite your journey with our brave brand blueprint and crafting your standout five-star teacher today.

Speaker 2:

Well, I am a bit on a mission to talk about how we could restructure our healthcare system, and policy really started both at the AMA, but also where I learned a lot of the theory of health policy, and I learned so much hearing about what the issues were that others were facing and how Medicare worked and how insurance companies worked, and just learned all of that. And then I've been fortunate in that the members of my practice have allowed me to use my practice as sort of a laboratory to put some things into place. So, for example, in 2012, I received an Innovation Center Award from the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Innovation for $19.8 million, and what I had done that earned me. That was, I figured out that whenever a cancer patient went into the hospital, their quality of life decreased. Even if they didn't get a blood clot or a bad infection or something else, they deconditioned and they were never quite as strong and healthy when they came out.

Speaker 2:

And so I started working with the practice to figure out how can I prevent people from ending up in the hospital, and so what was the earliest trigger that somebody was going to get in trouble and how do I intervene before they get in trouble and prevent that hospitalization from ever needing to happen, and we called that process come home for community oncology medical home, and that was actually an eye-opener for me and actually for a lot of people in the oncology space, because if you pay attention to what's going on with your patients, not just order the chemo and stop thinking about them for three weeks until they come back for the next dose you can really make sure that they're doing well and that they are properly managed.

Speaker 2:

Their side effects are taken care of, both of the cancer and the drugs and keep people out of the hospital. And for patients who have perhaps a limited amount of time and certainly a limited amount of energy, spending as much time as possible in their home with the people they love instead of in a hospital wearing those lovely gowns and having somebody poke you with a needle every morning is a huge quality of life issue, and so that kind of led to the oncology care model and some of these other changes where people have started to focus a good bit more about that. To me, that's what health policy is. It's looking at what you can do systematically, not just the patient in front of you, but including the patient in front of you and make lives better, 100%.

Speaker 1:

Well, I can't wait to have you come down and deliver that type of message to other oncologists. One thing that makes this conference different is physicians talking to physicians. They're not backed by other big pharma or medical device companies and things like that. They're having an open conversation. There will be obviously exhibitors and sponsors there, but this is an open dialogue on a national scale, because they're going to be people from all over and have conversations. You've got Moffitt Cancer Center there, You've got City of Hope there, You've got Advent Health, You've got some others.

Speaker 1:

So how can we affect change? Going back to what you said earlier about hey, you don't like cigarettes. What are you going to do about it? You know it's a carcinogen. What can you do? So now, this is something we're not just talking about. Let's do something about it. How can we make a measurable difference, especially when you already have stated that you see someone going through cancer and it is no matter how they might have, how they project on the outside and the inside is a very frightening situation. There's a lot of unknown there and, as you just alluded to that, the treatment could be just as painful or severe as the disease. So it's a catch-22 all the way around. Talk to us about, as an oncologist, and what you know and you're talking to a patient. I want you to talk to me as I'm a newly diagnosed patient. I just realized I have cancer. I don't have any idea what I'm about to go through. What would you say?

Speaker 2:

Well, the first thing is you have to be honest and you have to be clear. But you also have to understand that on that first visit, what the patient hears most is oh my God, this is me we're talking about, right, and all the details are in this haze of oh my gosh, this is me. So my theory is that you have to tell everybody things at least three or four times for it to cut through the fear and let people actually think. So usually what I will do on that first visit is I'll explain what the patient has. If it's curable, I will tell them that. If it's treatable, I will tell them that. If it's treatable, I will tell them that. If all I can do is promise an easy exit from this planet, then I do tell them that. But I also schedule another visit and I also talk to them about the fact that we're going to be there for them and I write it down. So first of all, I think face-to-face conversation is preferable, but I also don't do these things by telemedicine. I want to be able to sit there and hold that patient's hand or hug them or pat their shoulder or whatever feels appropriate in the moment, to be able to say we are here for you, we're going to take care of you. And then when they've gotten through that and I've written down what their cancer is, I've drawn maybe a picture of what's going on or shown them pictures, and then I say we almost always need to do some staging tests or I need to get some genetic workup done. Then we bring them back and we go over it again and then when we're ready to start treatment, we go over it again and I also then at that point have my oncology nurses go over it again and explain the medicines and we give them information. And I also tell patients that if cancer was not your major interest in life before this diagnosis, you don't have to switch your whole life around. You don't have to read every book on cancer, you don't have to listen to what everybody is telling you.

Speaker 2:

And I tell my patients that you will be surprised by what I call great Aunt Melba stories. People. They don't do this to you if you've had a heart attack or broken in your bone, skiing or something. When people have cancer, there are a lot of people come up with to to them and say, oh you, poor thing, you have cancer. My great aunt Melba had that. It was terrible. She suffered. You know they say all these bad things and everything is, and the poor patient is dissolving in front of their eyes because they're just getting their fears that fire is fanned and gasoline's being thrown on it. So I say, beware of the great Aunt Melba stories. You don't know what happened to Melba. Who knows she might have been hit by a bus, you don't know.

Speaker 2:

But when you hear a great Aunt Melba story, have your answer ready, say thank you for telling me that. I didn't really need to hear that right now, but maybe we can talk more later or something that gets you out of that conversation. Or they'll tell you you have to read all these books or you have to go to my church instead of your church. You have to do it. You can only eat, you know, grapefruit. Every day People will tell you how to run your life. If you broke your leg, they wouldn't tell you how to run your life. So I tell my patients you don't have to listen to all that.

Speaker 1:

You are still you that is a beautiful statement and great advice, because you know you're someone who deals with this on a daily basis and usually the patient. This is their one and only time, most hopefully, that they would have to deal with it and they have no idea what this is about.

Speaker 1:

Go through it. You just said you're going to do some self-backed doses. You're going to go to Google, google everything. You'll come home with some weird groceries or whatnot, and then you do all kinds of stuff. So it's nice that what I got from you, what you just explained to me, was human to human. It wasn't doctor to patient, it was human to human. Yes, you have a situation. Yes, this is what we're going to have to do through this. Yes, I'm going to help you through this. You can trust me, right and that that that feels good. Because I want to ask you this do you? Is there mental health, um, therapies that are available to cancer patients? Is that something outside of your scope or not?

Speaker 2:

no, it's very important for cancer patients. I mean, being told you have cancer is pretty depressing, right? If you understand what's going on, you're probably a bit depressed. So we've not always done a great job of recognizing that and treating that, and as an oncologist, I'm actually not very well trained in managing depression. And unfortunately, one of the health care issues in our country is that there are not enough mental health professionals and there's a huge stigma against going and getting health, particularly men. It's like I'm strong, I can do this, I'm fine, you know. It's like maybe you're not.

Speaker 2:

So what we're trying to do now I'm working with a new company that can provide telepsychology support, or telepsychiatry support, unlike oncology, where I want to be able to touch that person and hold their hand while I'm giving them news they don't want to hear. It's interesting that people will tell a little screen almost anything. I mean, just go look at Facebook, right, they'll tell anything. So telepsych seems to be one of those areas that really works, and so that's helping me in an underserved area like New Mexico, where we don't have much in the way of medical mental health resources, to be able to hook my patients up and get them the help they need them the help they need Now. If they need a prescription, I'll prescribe it, but it's very helpful for me to have a psychiatrist say this is the right antidepressant for this patient and this is the dose I want you to prescribe.

Speaker 1:

That's very important, Very important. You have to go hand in hand and look at the holistic situation that the patient is going through. Very good advice there. You're also part of an alliance. I want you to talk to us about that. How do you feel the future of oncology will look, especially with all these new tools digital tools that are coming on the scene?

Speaker 2:

tools digital tools that are coming on on the scene. Well, periodically I remind myself that the profession of being a physician evolved out of the priesthood, right? I don't think we're going to be replaced by an app, and I think people want to know that there's another human who actually cares about them as a person and is going to help them get through this tough emotional thing, right? So I also think that there's a right size to practices. This will not be popular at the Her Health Conference, but I will say it anyway.

Speaker 2:

The big systems run by hospitals are maybe not the best way to manage a chronic illness, but hospitals are designed for emergencies and I get very sick very quickly and I need to be someplace at two in the morning where they can take care of me. People are going to have car accidents, heart attacks and babies at 2 am. Somebody better be there for them, right. But for managing a chronic disease, a hospital is not the right section. It's twice as expensive, if not more. Not the right section. It's twice as expensive, if not more, and it's a little bit impersonal, and I find that this affects the physicians as well. When I went around the country talking to physicians, I found that there were different kinds of burnout from doctors who worked for big systems as to worked in an independent practice, and in big systems it was lack of control and not ability to manage your immediate environment and the feeling that at the end of the day you went home you were working for the CEO's bonus right Instead of for the patient. We just did so.

Speaker 2:

The organization you're referring to is called OnCare Alliance.

Speaker 2:

We are a group of about 34 independent oncology practices physician managed, physician owned scattered across the country, coast to coast.

Speaker 2:

I co-chair it with a good friend of mine named Dr Sabelle Blau, and what we are doing is helping those independent practices find best practices, be able to do research together, to learn to use data to improve what they do, to be able to do purchasing together, to survive the economics of health care together and to be able to have a foundation to help patients with the non-medical needs that they face back to the social determinants of health and to educate the younger physicians in our practices how to manage a practice.

Speaker 2:

So it's a very collegial group of like-minded practices and we actually did the AMA burnout survey for a subset of those practices and discovered that they scored about 10 to 15 points better on the burnout scale than the physicians who are employed by big hospitals. So I think there's a message there, and if a physician's burnt out, the first thing that goes is their empathy toward a patient, and you can't do this work without being able to see the world from your patient's eyes, and if you lose empathy, you've lost everything. So I think our job now is to give both doctors and patients options to make sure that independent practice is available for managing cancer as a chronic disease in the communities where people live. This fits right back into the idea of rural health care, underserved areas, making sure that we get those resources out to patients, and that's a lot of what I have been working on and what this alliance is all about.

Speaker 1:

And thank you for doing that. I love that. I love your mission, your vision, your values, you know getting back to real practicing of medicine and what it's all about and helping each other and not get, you know, sucked into someone else's um you know initiative that I always aligned to what you want to accomplish. I think there's a lot of push and pull, a lot in the healthcare delivery system and you've got to have your weakness taken to the ground. This has been wonderful. I'd like for you to let the audience know how to contact you, whether it's via LinkedIn, it's just an email, or just look you up online at your facility.

Speaker 2:

Well, I respond to email, though lately I'm getting hundreds of them every day from every politician wanting money for their campaign, so I'm drowning. But I will respond to emails. And it's just my last name, mcenany, at nmohccom, new Mexico Oncology Hematology Consultants. It's the name of my practice, com, and I'm happy to communicate with people and hear their ideas. I think that one of the things about the healthcare community is that we all came into it because we wanted to do good things for the people we serve, and good people tend to have good ideas and sharing good ideas helps them grow, and when any one of us does something better, we are all lifted up by that something better.

Speaker 1:

We are all lifted up by that. I 100% agree with you. I cannot wait to see you in person in Orlando, at the resort, october 26th and 27th. You're going to kick everything off and if you love this podcast, you're going to love coming out to Orlando. It'll be virtual as well if you cannot travel, but this has been been wonderful. I want to thank you again for being on the show my pleasure.

Speaker 2:

Thank you for inviting me. This has been fun you're welcome.

Speaker 1:

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