Follow The Brand Podcast with Host Grant McGaugh

BEYOND THE CORNER OFFICE with Herb Buchanan Board Chair NAHSE & Grant McGaugh

• Grant McGaugh CEO 5 STAR BDM • Season 6 • Episode 41

Share episode

Send us a text

What happens when an automotive engineer becomes a transformative force in healthcare leadership? Join us for an eye-opening conversation with Herb Buchanan, the man who transitioned from engineering to become a key figure in healthcare, holding top roles at major health systems and serving as Chair of the National Association of Health Services Executives. Herb shares his insights on the power of diversity in executive leadership and the critical importance of building relationships to drive meaningful change in the industry. Discover how Herb's personal journey and leadership philosophy provide essential lessons for both emerging professionals and seasoned executives.

Discover the pivotal role the National Association of Health Services Executives (NAHSE) plays in nurturing diverse leadership within healthcare. Herb opens up about how NAHSE has empowered individuals through mentorship and networking, unlocking skills like gravitas and presence. As we examine ongoing challenges in health equity and staffing, Herb emphasizes the impact of strategic advocacy and relationship-building. Gain valuable insights into the progress made in diversifying executive roles and the obstacles that remain, setting the stage for candid discussions on the future of leadership in healthcare.

Herb Buchanan's 30-year odyssey in healthcare isn't just about past achievements but also future aspirations. Listen as Herb contemplates his next moves, from mentoring the next generation to potentially venturing into consulting and training. The conversation takes a lighthearted turn as we compare sports allegiances, revealing a friendly rivalry that adds a personal touch to the dialogue. This episode offers a rich tapestry of insights, challenges, and aspirations, promising inspiration and guidance for anyone invested in the future of healthcare leadership.

Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Follow The Brand! We hope you enjoyed learning about the latest marketing trends and strategies in Personal Branding, Business and Career Development, Financial Empowerment, Technology Innovation, and Executive Presence. To keep up with the latest insights and updates from us, be sure to follow us at 5starbdm.com. See you next time on Follow The Brand!

Speaker 1:

Welcome to another episode of Follow the Brand. I am your host, grant McGaughan, ceo of 5 Star BDM, a 5 Star personal branding and business development company. I want to take you on a journey that takes another deep dive into the world of personal branding and business development, using compelling personal story, business conversations and tips to improve your personal brand. By listening to the Follow the Brand podcast series, you will be able to differentiate yourself from the competition and allow you to build trust with prospective clients and employers. You never get a second chance to make a first impression. Make it one that will set you apart, build trust and reflect who you are. Developing your five-star personal brand is a great way to demonstrate your skills and knowledge. If you have any questions from me or my guests, please email me at. Grantmcgaw spelled M-C-G-A-U-G-H at 5starbdm B for brand, d for development, m for masterscom. Now let's begin with our next five-star episode on Follow the Brand. Hello everyone, I am Grant McGaugh, ceo of Five Star BDM, where we help you to build a five-star brand that people will follow, and today we are taking you on a journey from the nation's capital to the Windy City, exploring leadership through the eyes of someone who's truly lived it.

Speaker 1:

In healthcare leadership. We often celebrate transformation and innovation, but let's not forget the people driving those changes, the leaders who not only achieve success, and leaders who not only achieve success but also leave a lasting legacy through mentorship and authentic relationships. That's why I am excited to introduce you to today's guest, herb Buchanan. Herb's story is nothing short of inspiring. He began his career as an automotive Engineer at Chrysler before transitioning to healthcare, where he has become a distinguished executive Currently serving as the Chair of the National Association of Health Services Executives. Herb has held C-Suite roles at academic medical centers and major health systems across the Midwest and East Coast. But here's what makes today's conversation so special we're not just talking about titles or career milestones. We are diving deep into the heart of leadership how to build meaningful relationships in healthcare, the critical role of diversity in the C-suite, and what it truly takes to create lasting change in an industry that impacts everyone's lives. So, whether you are an emerging professional aspiring to, or a seasoned executive navigating today's complex healthcare challenges, herb's insights will inspire and guide you. He's not just a leader. He's a mentor and a changemaker with decades of experience making a real difference.

Speaker 1:

So get ready for a candid, insightful conversation about leadership, mentorship and the future of healthcare on the Windy City. We're talking about the nation's capital as well, washington DC, the birthplace of Herb Buchanan. He's the current chair of the National Association of Health Services Executives, right, and he's also the current or former CEO in AdventHealth in the Naperville area. We're going to talk about that because he has a storied history over time in the C-suite leadership position and it looks to me like all over the Midwest. He has served as well on the East Coast. I'm very, very impressed with his background. We're going to have a candid conversation about himself, about senior leadership and how he sees the landscape going forward. So, herb, would you like to introduce yourself?

Speaker 2:

Sure, sure, grant, I'm excited about being here. As you mentioned, I serve in AHSC, which is a mouthful, you said, the whole organization. I appreciate that as chair. Most recently I was an executive in another long name, university of Chicago Medicine, advent Health, great Lakes Region, which is a fancy way of saying a partnership between University of Chicago Medicine and AdventHealth, and this is the AdventHealth headquartered in Orlando, florida, and so we've got four hospital system that combined with University of Chicago's main campus downtown and a campus on the south side of Chicago, and that partnership formed about two years ago. So most recently I held a number of senior executive roles including, as you mentioned, ceo of Bolingbroke Hospital, chief Operating Officer for the region, interim CEO of the region, lead for Strategy and Integration. So a lot of transition. That's my most recent role. That partnership is still going well, but I left that organization earlier this year. But I left that organization earlier this year.

Speaker 1:

This is going to be a great discussion, because what's top of mind for me is leadership and leadership pipelines, specifically in health care and hospital operations and IDNs and the like. You have the purview and the experience of looking over all of those different things and have lived it. You have a lived experience. I think that's wonderful. The first question I want to ask you, though, is around your history how you got into this business, you know, and what prepared you to be able to operate at such a high level over this amount of time.

Speaker 2:

Well, grant, I'm happy to share. I've got an unusual background for a health care executive and I started off as an engineer. You mentioned Midwest. I spent my early years in Detroit with Chrysler Corporation. So I was an auto engineer and I'm not sure you're going to find too many of those in the C-suite, but I spent years there and then three things got me interested in health care. One was a desire to contribute to the service industry. I was always into cars. Cars were fun, but they weren't making a big contribution to the community and health care provided that opportunity. I just did not have a healthcare background. So in order to get into the business, I went to graduate school Northwestern University that had a healthcare program and tried to learn as much about healthcare as I could.

Speaker 2:

What attracted me, grant, was healthcare has had many, many seasons of struggling. At that point it was revenues, it was payment systems, and I had the idea that some innovation, some creativity, some problem-solving techniques would be useful in healthcare and I could somehow do some catch-up on the pure healthcare knowledge. Because I didn't know anything about healthcare, I didn't have a clinical background, but I wanted to contribute to the industry. I thought it was a wonderful time to bring some engineering approaches, some problem solving, some different kinds of thinking.

Speaker 2:

I hoped to be a fast learner in the business and then, finally, the program I went to, the MBA program, was team oriented and I believe that a team oriented approach to leadership was one that was going to be successful. To work with surgeons, to work with academic folks, to work with nurses, techs all of those people you really need a healthcare team approach as much as anywhere else, and so we focused so much on team in all of our instructions, in all of our case studies, that that provided an excellent background. So my belief was an engineering background, a team-oriented approach to leadership, having healthcare training on the academic side at least, and an MBA would be something that I could use in this industry to advance.

Speaker 1:

Let's talk about that. I've got a lot of people that come to me and say, grant, I've got my MBA, I've got my education, but I'm having trouble breaking into the field. Or I'm having trouble getting to that next level. I'm in management but I'm not in the directorship arm. I'm trying to get into that VP level all those different things to ascend. As you look at your career, what were the pivotal moments? What have you leveraged? What has been on your side that got you we talked about football earlier got you that first down, it got you that first win and you're like, wow, I think I can be successful doing that. That would be also something that could be beneficial to someone else listening to the show.

Speaker 2:

Well, grant, you know this well. You can get all the training and all the education you want, until you get in and start developing productive relationships, you're not going to be successful. And so it was really that ability to form relationships. And my first job out of the MBA program was consulting and I got to go to a variety of hospitals community hospitals, academic centers. I got to talk to physicians, and physicians will challenge you. Nurses will challenge you the first time you go into an OR and they said you're not an MD, how long have you worked in a hospital? And you say, well, I haven't. They'll challenge you on everything. Well, how do you know the OR needs to be this big? How do you know about sterile techniques? And your response is I don't. What I know is how to listen and how to develop relationships and how to translate your expertise into planning, operation, strategy, management, engineering, you name it. So it was really developing those relationships and as folks try to progress from early career to mid-career, from mid-career to the executive suite, it's those relationships. Of course, it's this delivery. You've got to deliver, you've got to hit those metrics.

Speaker 2:

But forming those productive relationships and there's so many ways of doing that there's internal, where you look for opportunities within your scope of interest and outside of your scope of interest. It's volunteering for things outside of your formal responsibilities, having mentors and sponsors and organizations that will say oh, we know, grant, he helped us to achieve this, he helped us to achieve that, he's fun to work with, he gets things done, he's organized, he's structured. Those kind of relationships will ascend Formal and informal conversations. You and I both know that when you're outside of the room, that's when many of those conversations are happening. So if someone is thinking about you, you want those people in the room to say, oh, I highly recommend, I had a good experience. Talk to so-and-so. They will tell you that this is going to be a good move for you.

Speaker 2:

It's really about relationship. It's about delivery. It's about knowing who is making those decisions, who the movers and shakers are, taking opportunities to work with them, to be on committees with them and demonstrate your worth, looking for opportunities that aren't comfortable for you, showing that you're willing to grow and that you can adapt All of those things. Mentors and sponsors can be tremendous help in that regard, and so I talk to a lot of people who have hit that, maybe that hurdle, or just slowed down a little bit and are trying to get kickstarted, and typically the same solutions work. You know who's in your corner. What are the opportunities in your organization? What haven't you done? What do you need to do to fill out your resume? Who do you need to impress? In some cases, it may even be changing the organization, but what can you do in your current place to impress folks? People are looking for problem solvers. When you make yourself a problem solver, you're attractive to the C-suite.

Speaker 1:

Well stated, well stated, and the one word that comes to me, as you just stated that, and we're going to talk about your other big passion, which is the National Association of Health Service Executives, where you serve as the chair, is gravitas. When I've met with you and I've been with you, there's a feeling of gravitas and and great humility and then great depth. That's what I feel when I'm in your presence and we've talked about this association. A lot of people, some people, aren't even aware still today of the National Association of Health Services. They've been around 50 plus years, but some of the most prominent African-American healthcare executives have been a part, or still a part, of this organization. It's very, very important and I've taken up as my purpose to make sure that awareness is not a problem. It's just a matter of now. You want to consider being a part of it or you see what you said even earlier what does it accomplish? What is its purpose? What is it doing? Talk to us about the organization and how you feel that it's going to move forward.

Speaker 2:

I'm glad you asked that, Brandon. I've got a mouthful so you tell me when the public breaks a little bit. But the things that you started off with gravitas, presence, reputation, all of those things, many of those are the result of my experiences with the National Association of Health Services Executives. Early in my career I met Kevin Lofton, who was one of the biggest names in the business, did the largest faith-based merger in healthcare history. He's been a mentor of mine for almost 30 years. He introduced me to NAHSE and all of the elements that you mentioned. If you are looking to strengthen any of those, you can find it within the organization.

Speaker 2:

The goals of the organization, of course, are to advance people with diverse backgrounds into leadership executive roles, to expand their careers and to address health equity issues, and there's been track record, years and years of success. I've been fortunate to have developed the things that you witnessed and that you observed by looking at the leaders in the organization who have been there for decades and decades and have given back to the organization. They've sponsored, they've mentored, they've taught, they've in the educational conference, they've done segments to teach people how to do everything from mergers and acquisitions to revenue cycle. You name it, the gamut. They've expanded to include entrepreneurs. So the organization is about helping folks give back, achieve health equity and advance their careers. And everything from graduate school case competition, which brings graduate students in, gives them opportunities, teaches them problem-solving skills, exposes them to executives, to mid-career folks who can expand their skills, find mentors, find opportunities. The organization also helps folks find opportunities. Search firms are part of the organization all the way up to Elevate, which is a unique organization brought together by senior system executives to help the next level or the next phase of executives ascend to senior system level positions. So all the things that you mentioned that folks are looking for are somehow available, connected to partnering with in AHSE.

Speaker 2:

And I tell folks, when I tell them about the organization, that a large part of my mentoring, a large part of my advice, a large part of my opportunities, my friends in the industry, have come from this organization.

Speaker 2:

Certainly there's AHA, there's ACHE and we want to be inclusive, but for this organization their values align with values that many of us have and the people there have a family-type atmosphere where they're willing to give and for folks who are struggling to find a senior executive who's willing to invest in them if you can't find in this organization grant, I don't know where you're going to find it, because it's just that kind of atmosphere. So I became chair because of years and years of contributing to the organization, but also because people developed a trust in me to get things done, to organize, to plan for the future. From years and years of them pouring into me, of me demonstrating, of me pouring into young folks, of judging the student case competition for 20 years. All of those elements are part and parcel and if this begins to sound like a commercial for the organization, Well, it is because it has done so much for me and for so many others and will continue to do so, and it's an important priority for me 100%.

Speaker 1:

I love what you just stated and it's important. Especially, I love the case competition, because that's when you're seeing people. What you talked about earlier, you're in engineering, no-transcript, and that we, that the organization has tapped large schools, ohio State's, the world, the Big Ten, the Big Four, the Power Four, but also HBCUs.

Speaker 1:

Exactly, you know that they're not only just participating, they're actually placing and being considered for top honors within the program. So they're competing with the best of the best. And then the winners of those programs get to meet with senior executives of very large institutions like Kaiser Permanente that you're invited out. Going back to what you also said earlier about relationships, how can you it's called speed to market right, how can you accelerate your career in any other way but then, being in the same room with these senior leaders who know who you are and they can advocate for you? I love how you stated that it's so important. I want to change the conversation just a little bit. I want to address what I call the elephant in the room. Say, what is that Now? Say health equity. We've said diversity and inclusion and equity, or I don't know if I put it in the right sequence but DE&I, we go all the way back to affirmative action. I mean, these things have always kind of cropped up. They go, they ebb and they flow. I want you to talk to those younger people. We just talked about it. They're like, hey, we're getting out, we're getting our experiences, but hey, am I going to be, you know, not getting an opportunity because of my culture or who I am. Talk to those people that have those questions, ready to elevate your brand with five-star impact.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the File Brand Podcast, your gateway to exceptional personal growth and innovative business strategies. Join me as I unveil the insider strategies of industry pioneers and branding experts. Discover how to supercharge your business development. Harness the power of AI for growth and sculpt a personal brand that stands out in the crowd. Transform ambition into achievement. Explore more at FirestarBDMcom for a wealth of resources. Enact your journey with our brave brand blueprint and begin crafting your standout five-star future.

Speaker 2:

It's a legitimate question and a challenge Grant and in many ways, as we reflect, we've come a long way. You mentioned the organization's over 50 years old. When you look at some of the metrics where we started the metrics from how many C-suite folks there are, how many CEOs of major systems, academic CEOs you name those We've come a long way. By the same token, we're struggling with many of the challenges that I was seeing when I got into this business more than 30 years ago. So it's a little bit of both. We've made advances, we've got folks in decision-making positions. We're fighting some of the same battles and the reason why it's one of the main pillars for NAHSC is because health equity still has a long way to go and it's facing challenges and we won't get into a political discussion this morning. But clearly, when you look at what's on the horizon, there could be additional challenges to health equity and our accomplishments.

Speaker 2:

What the organization is focused on is partnering with sponsors, major organizations you mentioned Kaiser, ochsner Health, upmc to do things together. We're doing research with Morehouse School of Medicine, so we're trying to cover the whole landscape. Research, of course, drives decision-making. So what's health equity research and where are the largest gaps, how to address those, what are the successful ways of addressing those? So we've got a research arm. We also need to partner with organizations who have a broader scope, who frankly have more resources, who have the same mission and vision, and then enable our members to participate in that conversation but also in action plans, as long as organizations are still struggling with making it a priority with their board, a priority with their annual goals, priority with their C-suites, evaluating their C-suite members on how to advance those needs. We're well aware in general of the community needs. Where we struggle, of course, is effective solutions to address those. We'd like to be a clearinghouse is effective solutions to address those. We'd like to be a clearinghouse. We'd like to be the place that AHA, ache you name the organization comes and says one where do we find information? Where do we find people who are interested in impacting this and how do we partner? And we need to build on that. That's been our goal for some time. We need to get better and better at that, and developing partnerships will help us in that regard.

Speaker 2:

But for young folks who are interested in health equity, you got to find out where your organization is, because many, as I've seen the last few years have stated it and haven't been serious about it. So don't get discouraged. That may not be the case. Some have made appropriate investments, some need to do more. And then where in the industry can you find other opportunities?

Speaker 2:

Certainly with our organization we're working on that, possibly with an ACHE and others, but like-minded folks it's always good to be around like-minded folks when you're trying to tackle a big problem, when you're trying to find solutions. I believe at every annual educational conference and probably our CEO suite C-suite conversation as well, we have folks who come in and talk about health equity and what things they have done. So I certainly encourage folks to get involved with our organization and find out what the opportunities are. But in the field, you know back at home it continues to be a challenge and I can't name a whole lot of organizations that I would say are the benchmark for achieving. We've been talking about this for a long, long time.

Speaker 2:

When they're in problems in healthcare that you're not making a significant dent in it would indicate that they haven't been the level of priorities that we thought they were and we have to impact that as well. So getting our folks on boards, getting them into the C-suite you mentioned earlier. Having that voice is so important and that's what drives organizations. When Kevin and Lloyd put the common spirit merger together, health equity was on the agenda. When Gene and Skogsberg put Atrium Advocate together, health equity was on the agenda and a significant investment. That's how it gets done.

Speaker 1:

That's how we get. We have to do that, and I want to change the conversation just a little bit, because this is so important, because these are what I call C-suite discussions. Talk to me as if I am the chairman of the board of a major health system and you are my CEO, and I'm going to ask you what are the major challenges in healthcare as far as trends, topics, situations, challenges that I may not be aware of? That I would ask you to address.

Speaker 2:

Oh, my goodness, there's a long list. There's a long list. Certainly health equity, and we would assume that they're aware of that. They may not know the gravity or they may not know the lack of progress. So health equity, of course, comes up early on. Staffing is one, particularly for boards, grant, that I don't think people really appreciate. All the projections for nurses, for techs, for physicians, for just about every position in our business, all the projections say that we're not going to have nearly enough resources to match the demand. And as more and more baby boomers, gen Xs, age into the area where they need more health care, we're not going to have enough folks to provide the care, to provide the care. So, whether it's nursing schools, medical schools, finding people just to provide services is a challenge today and that's only going to get more difficult and you have to stay ahead of that. So what are the strategies with schools, with communities? It's one of those challenges, grant, where when you go to a city and you find a significant unemployment rate and then you go to the healthcare sector and there's a significant deficit and you're thinking why isn't this coming together? And programs that start as early as grade school, middle school, that introduce folks to healthcare and tell them you know if you're a nurse you can find a job anywhere on the planet. You should never be unemployed as a nurse. Similarly, for techs, physicians are opting out. In many cases it's a lot harder to deliver services than it used to be, so ensuring that we've got resources. I don't think boards have a full appreciation that this is a problem that has to be solved and it has to be solved in partnerships with communities, with schools, with universities, graduate programs as well as those I would say.

Speaker 2:

Continuity of leadership the C-suite is turning over so rapidly. I think the average tenure for a CEO now is three years or less. Match that up with the benchmark in the industry. It takes a couple of years to learn a culture and really understand how to move it. You can come in with your 100-day plan or your first quarter plan or whatever. That's well and good, but to learn how an organization works, to develop board relationships, community relationships that are productive, it takes two years. So if your tenure on average is three years and it takes you two years to start making a mark, that's not a good plan. So for boards, continuity and in some cases it's because boards and ownership and leadership is changing. In some cases it's people moving on.

Speaker 2:

But stronger retention approach is to keep people on board. Anyone who has ever drafted and tried to execute a strategy, even outside of healthcare, knows you got to have a consistent team to get those. You can't hit the reset button every 18 months, every two years. So continuity of a team. Organizations that have been successful the Cleveland clinics, the Mayo clinics, adventhealth have been able to get a cadre of leaders and hold on to them. So as they develop and refine their strategies, they have some consistency.

Speaker 2:

Organizations, even the Fortune 100s, that have a new CEO every couple of years. Their performance is like this because you have to reset and people are going to follow the C-suite, um board is going to follow the C-suite, competitors are going to pay attention to the C-suite and if you're constantly having to reset and the CEO doesn't want to come in and say, well, what did my predecessor do, let's do that, they're going to come in with their own agenda and so asking the leaders in the organization to reset consistently is a significant problem. So, again, I could go on and on about this, but there are things like medical records, use of artificial intelligence that really need to be figured out. They have tremendous potential. We have to figure out how to channel that into the most productive, because we need efficiencies. One of the retention issues I mentioned earlier can be addressed by efficiencies in the organization. So, capacity for resources, in some cases, capacity for beds and outpatient services. There's one I don't want to fail to mention, and that's competition, um, there's. There's one I don't want to fail to mention and that's competition.

Speaker 2:

Um, so many people, private equities, getting into the business, Walmart, uh, amazon, everybody wants to get into healthcare. Everybody doesn't understand the complexity of healthcare and we've seen major organizations jump in, spend billions of dollars and get out because, oh, this is tough. Yes, yeah, we, we is tough. Yes, yeah, we knew that. But the competition of course makes it so much more difficult and one of the reasons why you see so many hospitals joining systems is because of the competition and to access resources or technology they need the support of the bigger systems.

Speaker 2:

But now we're just trying to figure that out. So we talked about a merger atrium and advocate years ago. That's Carolina, chicago, wisconsin. Healthcare generally is thought of as local, so they've got to figure out a strategy to make that make sense. They can pool their resources to do technology, pool their resources to do supply chain, pool their resources to do health equity. How do you make those regions work as one get best practices, et cetera, et cetera, because there's an appetite for mergers. The mergers just have to make sense. That is a lot. Yeah, it is a lot. It is a lot.

Speaker 1:

Spresley is a board member. How do you compete? We talked about this earlier. It's an analogy that we pull together our plans, we're a good team and we're going to face an opponent to win the game. We've done our assessment and will figure out. You know what we can do this, this and this and we should leverage our strengths against their weaknesses and we'll be able to go ahead and score and score at will. That's the thinking right, right, right.

Speaker 1:

However, you underestimate what's on the other side of the ball. You just mentioned about these major corporations and they got into the healthcare realm and they had a great plan. They were throwing a bunch of money around and they got their butt kicked because they underestimated the true problems that were occurring within the system of healthcare. And it's not as easy as it looks. There's a lot of complexities. You've worked on the provider part of that world, remember. There's payers involved, there's government involved, there's all kinds of other things that you don't have complete control over. That can then upset your strategy and your plan and you get a different result. Very, very important. Before we get out of here, I want to ask you this what's next for Herb Buchanan?

Speaker 2:

Excellent question. Excellent question. I mentioned I may have undersold this a bit I got into healthcare to change the industry and as a young person that seems like a reasonable goal, a person my age maybe not so much, but I mentioned the things earlier that drove me there. I really got in to reshape the industry for delivery. I don't mean just delivery in the sense of going to the hospital, but all the aspects that you mentioned making it all work hospital, but all the aspects that you mentioned making it all work. Healthcare has to work for the community. It has to work for the nation. So, whether they're revenue issues, whether they're issues whether doctors are getting along, healthcare has to be available to the community in ways that they can access it, in ways that they can improve the health. So I got in more than 30 years ago to reshape the industry. I will say candidly, I've not been successful in doing that, but I continue to look for ways of doing that.

Speaker 2:

At this point there's so many avenues open to you. The traditional route that I've taken I did academic medicine for a while, I did leadership at the system level you can continue to go that route. But there's so many other things. There's consulting, there's research, there are graduate programs who need training, there are more opportunities within NAHSC to contribute. So I don't want to be evasive with my answer. I certainly want to continue to impact the industry. I want to reshape whatever solutions need to be brought to bear, being innovative, being creative and maybe most importantly, help train, develop and advance the next level of leaders.

Speaker 2:

I learned, fortunately early in the career, it's important for the industry and for the various organizations to have that cadre of leaders. That helps with the continuity, it helps with accessing those resources, and so that's one of my main priorities. How do I continue to contribute? I can do it through NAHSC. I can hopefully do it through other organizations. I mentor a number of folks, but you can see from the gray beard, the gray hair, that I need to be focusing on making sure that next level of leaders is prepared and has every opportunity to succeed. I need them to do more than I've ever done in this business in advance, and you know as well as I do there's nothing that makes you more proud than seeing someone you met or mentored or sponsored move up in the business beyond you.

Speaker 2:

I used to tell folks early on one day I'll be working for you and, of course, they laugh at you and say you're being silly, but there's no prouder moment than to see someone ascend to a position where, literally, you could be looking to them for an opportunity. So I would say that's the most important thing to me, grant, is to make sure that there are leaders who have an opportunity, that are trained, that have all the skills we talked about early, that have network, gravitas, team-oriented leadership, reputations, sponsors, people who are talking well of them even when they're not in the room. That's the most important thing to me, and everything I've done so far has provided me with that opportunity. Once you have that credibility, then people come to you and they want to talk about what did you do? How did you do it? How can I do it? I don't think there's anything I enjoy more than making that contribution.

Speaker 1:

Well, you made a significant contribution through your tenure, what you've done. As you look back on your journey, it's been wonderful. I thank you for being that person in the room when I wasn't in the room and that you were helping to make the decisions that we can get better patient outcomes for our community, and we want to continue to have voices like that available to us in all the different boardrooms that are in America in health care. I have just one more quick question because it's on my mind and because you're from DC and that you've lived in Chicago and you mentioned a little bit about Detroit and I'm not sure if you're into college football or the NFL, but are you a Commanders fan? Are you a Bears fan? Are you a Lions fan? Talk to me about that.

Speaker 2:

Are you a Bears fan? Are you a Lions fan? Talk to me about that. Well, let's deviate just ever so slightly and say I'm a diehard Wolverine. Oh, there we go. While this isn't a good year for us, we're on the heels 2024 National Championship, so we'll hang our hat on that. As far as professional football, this is a rough time to be a Bears fan. I always try to support the home team. I'm a big fan of the Commanders and what they're trying to do. Their new quarterback is dynamic and I'm looking forward to seeing him in advance. My son is a diehard Commanders fan, so I'll go with the Commanders Next year. Our conference is in Pittsburgh, so a shout out to Pittsburgh. And I'm a big fan of Mike Tomlin and hopefully we may get him to make an appearance. So, um, I don't want to evade the answer. I'll certainly say I'm supporting the commanders, um, with their new approach new quarterback, new new coach, all of those things and hoping that Caleb Williams and the bears can turn things around.

Speaker 1:

Well, I'm just going to tee off on that Steelers, because I'm a big-time Steelers fan. That is my favorite team. I do have love for the Dolphins, but when it comes to NFL I love the Steelers and college football. I am from Omaha, Nebraska a few people like that. I am still a diehard Cornelisker fan. I know we've fallen off the mark, but hey, we're back in the bowl game. We're on our way, baby, we're going to be there, we're going to compete in the Big Ten, hopefully play these Michigan Wolverines at some point in time. So, Herb, tell us how to contact you, what is the best possible way, and then we're going to wish you a happy holiday.

Speaker 2:

Sounds good, sounds good, so two ways. I text a lot and so I'll give. If that's okay, I can give myself a number 312-890-8757. And also email. The email is hcbuchanan, b-u-c-h-a-n-a-n. 209 at icloudcom and I enjoy communicating, so I'm always welcoming folks to reach out to me for personal questions, for organizational questions, for connections, whatever will benefit them.

Speaker 1:

I love it, I love it and this is what I do. I've been doing this late and I'm going to ask you this because it's real time Testimonials how did you feel about the interview you just did on the Follow Brand Show?

Speaker 2:

I feel wonderful about it. First of all, the host is spectacular. He makes me feel like I'm on one of my favorite podcasts. I really enjoyed it. The questions are insightful, they're relevant to the audience. They get us going to talk about the things that we need to share with folks, so I enjoyed the podcast. I would do this over and over again. Even if we just talk sports, I would do this.

Speaker 1:

Well, we might have to do that definitely in 2025. I want to invite your entire audience and your entire family to tune in to all the episodes of Follow Brand. You can do so at the number five. That's five-star. Bdm, that's B for Brand, d for development and for masterscom. This has been wonderful and I look forward to talking to you again, my friend.

Speaker 2:

Thanks a lot, Grant. Happy holidays to you. Enjoy and go Cornhuskers, I love go Big Red.

Speaker 1:

Thanks for joining us on the Fall of Red podcast. Big thanks to Full Effect Productions for their incredible support on each and every episode. Now the journey continues on our YouTube channel Follow Brand TV Series. Dive into exclusive interviews, extended content and bonus insights that will fuel your success. Subscribe now and be a part of our growing community sharing and learning together. Explore, engage and elevate at Follow Brand TV Series on YouTube. Stay connected, stay inspired. Till next time. We will continue building a five-star brand that you can follow.