Follow The Brand Podcast with Host Grant McGaugh

The $847 Billion Rebellion: How Your Apple Watch Will Destroy Healthcare Insurance Forever

• Grant McGaugh CEO 5 STAR BDM • Season 2 • Episode 40

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What if your fitness tracker could revolutionize not just your health habits, but the entire healthcare system? This fascinating conversation with João Bocas, globally recognized as "The Wearable Expert," explores how wearable technology might democratize healthcare and shift power dynamics toward consumers.

João shares his remarkable journey from Portuguese immigrant with no English skills to renowned healthcare innovation consultant. His path was shaped by a powerful personal transformation—moving from an unhealthy lifestyle of excessive drinking and smoking in his twenties to becoming a passionate advocate for wellness technology. "I'm a 25 or 26-year-old man and I feel like I'm 60 already," he recalls thinking at his turning point. This revelation sparked a lifelong commitment to health and eventually led him to pioneer work in digital health.

The discussion dives deep into wearable technology's evolution from primitive pedometers to sophisticated health monitoring devices. João emphasizes that technology alone isn't the solution—behavioral change remains the critical foundation for health improvement. "The wearable is not the miracle. The miracle lies with us, our will, our desire, our self-care," he explains. This perspective cuts through the hype surrounding health tech and focuses on its true purpose: enabling better decisions.

Perhaps most compelling is João's vision for healthcare's future. He foresees a world where individuals own their health data and use it to negotiate more equitable insurance premiums. "I exercise five times a week. Why shall I pay the same premium as someone who exercises once a week and smokes?" This potential power shift represents a fundamental disruption to traditional healthcare economics, particularly relevant to markets like the United States where insurance costs remain a significant burden.

Whether you're a healthcare professional, technology enthusiast, or simply someone interested in taking control of your wellness journey, this conversation offers valuable insights into how personal responsibility and technological innovation might reshape healthcare for everyone. Subscribe to the Follow the Brand Podcast for more conversations that explore the intersection of personal branding, technology, and industry transformation.

Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Follow The Brand! We hope you enjoyed learning about the latest marketing trends and strategies in Personal Branding, Business and Career Development, Financial Empowerment, Technology Innovation, and Executive Presence. To keep up with the latest insights and updates from us, be sure to follow us at 5starbdm.com. See you next time on Follow The Brand!

Speaker 1:

Okay, Grant, Look lovely to meeting you. All right, let's get ready.

Speaker 2:

All right. So this is the Follow the Brand Podcast. I am Grant McGill. I am so happy today as we get near and dear to things that are personal to me, and that's personal branding, business development, and I love my international community. I had the opportunity to speak to a gentleman who is residing in the London area and also is from Portugal. You know, these are bigger things and I'm trying to understand, like well, what is life like there? What is going on here? So I come across Jao Bocas. Jao Bocas is very, very well known in his community. He has been doing a number of things for a number of years and he's a gigantic healthcare advocate and I couldn't think of anyone better that I would want to have on this show right now to talk about some things I think are near and dear to a lot of people's hearts. So before I go off on my tangent, I want to introduce you to Jao. So introduce yourself. Let's talk a little bit more about you.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, thank you, grant. Lovely to meeting you. Nice, to see you again. So my name is João Bocas. I'm delighted to be here on the show with you, with your audience, with your connections, and broadcasting to the world. I'm a Portuguese national based in the UK for the last well, 20,. I came in 2001,. So it will be 24 years exactly.

Speaker 1:

To cut the story short, as a child I was always very interested in two things. I only wanted to be two things. One, like many boys, I wanted to be a soccer player. Because he played foot, he played soccer on the streets in europe and everybody, all the kids, want to be a soccer player. Yeah, I was one of them. Yeah, or I was also attracted to the business world. So I only wanted to do a. I only wanted to be a professional sportsman or a businessman. Okay, they were my two things.

Speaker 1:

And I remember as a child going to this market second secondhand marketplace a very young child, 11, 12 years old, with my older peers for my street to sell my old toys and some belongings and do business, and huggling already Like, how much is that? Oh, 12 bucks, I'll give you six. All this was already ingrained in me, the business world, since a very young age. So anyway, I've always been very active as a sports person. I didn't make the professional standard, but I was an amateur. I've done triathlons, I've done running, I was a soccer referee, I was a soccer coach in the UK and when I moved to the UK as an immigrant which I don't like the word, but I've done all these jobs that perhaps you have to do because I didn't speak English when I came in 2001,. Grant, I didn't like the word, but I've done all these jobs that perhaps you have to do because I didn't speak English when I came in 2001,. Grant, I didn't speak English. It was horrible, to be honest with you, the first two years in England I didn't like it at all because I was just doing cleaning in restaurants, making beds in the hotels. Like Brighton, where I live, is a very cosmopolitan and a touristic place, so you get students and people from around the world, so it's always work in hospitality, also in catering. So I was doing all these jobs.

Speaker 1:

And then my study. I done a college degree, as I told you before, I studied as a professional coach and my passion is sport. You know sports and health, sometimes they go hand in hand the performance, the well-being you know. And yeah, I progressed. I was a soccer coach for a number of years, I was a soccer referee, I was a personal trainer. I've always been into this well-being stuff. And then my transition to corporate wellness. I was doing in London some corporate wellness work with the stress management well-being programs, employee well-being, and I'm from 20 years ago. I remember the pedometers. I don't know if you remember that. They're the single-digit pedometers that you say oh, you have like 400 steps.

Speaker 1:

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, yeah, very, very digit pedometers that you said oh, you have like 400 steps, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's very, very old-fashioned. I think they made in china. They only tell you the number. Yeah, they didn't have anything else, they're just very, very, yeah, very low tech yeah, very low tech.

Speaker 1:

yeah, no tech at all. Yeah, just the steps. No, sorry, I remember. I remember that I think we came a long way only these. To transition the conversation to healthcare and wearables as you know, I'm a very big advocate of wearables. But, yeah, I progressed and moved into healthcare and now I'm into global healthcare innovation. I run a consulting business and we're talking about the US and primarily I'm global. I have a global brand, but I'm targeting the European and the US markets and, as I told you, I was in Miami a couple of weeks ago. So it's so many things to talk about so I'll pass the ball over to you.

Speaker 2:

Your brand, your personal brand, is pretty remarkable. That's what attracted me to you. And then we got into some conversation. You're also a global speaker around digital health technology. You're known as a you know a digital health influencer big time. And what you're doing around the world of wearables you know the. You're known as the wearable expert. You brought up pedometer. I barely remembered all that stuff. You know you're coming all the way full. Most people are familiar with Fitbits and things of that nature, but I want to understand what inspired you to focus so strongly on wearable technology and how do you see wearable shaping the future of healthcare in the next five to 10 years?

Speaker 1:

Sure, well, my biggest motivator, grant. Sometimes I don't when you mention, for example, the why why are you doing what you are doing? Well, my biggest motivator, grant sometimes I don't when you mention, for example, the why why are you doing what you are doing? I'm a passionate person. I have a lot of energy, I'd like to go in the gym in the morning and then I crack on with my day. Sometimes I think I don't have a why, but I have a why and this is my motivator.

Speaker 1:

I'm very into health. Keep healthy, healthy mind, healthy body. Because and I'll tell you why I don't reveal this very, very often. It's not a secret, I'm not ashamed of that. But for a number of years, I live a very unhealthy lifestyle, drink too much smoke, probably, take things that I shouldn't be taking, you know. And over 20 years ago, I had a turnaround in my life and I said right, I don't want to be doing this anymore. I'm a 25 or 26 year old man and I feel like I'm 60 already.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, because of that lifestyle, you think you're having fun, but in, in all essence, you're not having fun. Going to bed at five or six in the morning and wake up at 12, that's not, that's not alive. And also you feel drained because that the the consumption of alcohol, for example. It drains your body, it's poison. You think you're having fun because you're having a great time. Let's have another drink. One drink turns into two, two turns into three, four, five and all of a sudden you're just like not enjoying anymore. So I had a turnaround in my life anymore. So I had a turnaround in my life.

Speaker 1:

From then on I uh stopped smoking, uh stopped drinking, and I was into. I've always been into sport as a young, as I mentioned to you. So I came back to that and I started to fulfill my um, my, my, my passion again about feeling well doing sport. And then I started doing a lot of education. I was in education for over 80 years. I was a mature student.

Speaker 1:

I've done a college degree in Brighton, a sports degree, and I've done many other qualifications, all health-related Massage therapy, stress management. I've done a couple of courses on substance misuse and drug addiction and alcohol so all two. And I'm also very big on personal development. I like to educate myself but also project that to the world. So that's probably my main reason why I transition into healthcare and if I'm honest with you grant, sometimes I'm very frustrated with healthcare because it's complicated, is um is a very peculiar industry, difficult to get business, difficult to understand what's going on. Sometimes I think I wish I was in fintech or in banking, because you can make more money and it's more straightforward. You show the return on investment. People buy or not in healthcare is not like that. You might have a great product, you might have a great service, you might be a great guy, you might have a lot of knowledge, but all of a sudden is a lot of pushback in healthcare. Yeah, I wonder why.

Speaker 2:

That is what you just said, and I've been in healthcare 10 years or so. I've been in information technology 25, 30 years. It is a unique industry and there's more probably regulation and compliance and things of that nature. They operate. Some of them I'm talking the us experience very low margins. I I think you're in the uk so you're probably working with more government systems, um, but there are private systems. Why do you think there's such? Why do you think there's such resistance to some in from a business development standpoint in health care?

Speaker 1:

yeah, that's a very, that's a very. Oh, that's like the the million dollar question. I mean, to be honest, grantees, I wish I had the answer. I'm gonna have an attempt to answer the best of my ability. Uh, one in one hand, I see the need to, I see the need to have regulation to protect people, to do the the right thing, to not let anyone come to the people's bodies or interventions or services, like, just like as in any other industry. I understand that you have to protect the human being, integrity and everything. But, on the other hand, is like one thing that is like feels very contradictory is, for example, I'm not a scientist, I'm not a physician, I'm not a data technology expert but, for example, we have data. Is all these discussions around access to the data to support the patient, to benefit the physician and the patient, to open up, and a lot of the things are not available. Even though, for example, I get your data, or as a physician or as an organization, I'm not able to share, even with other organizations, with other organizations. Only now, for example, in the Netherlands, they have a new health data act Between organizations. They start to allow sharing information for the benefit of the population and the systems, of course, but only now we're starting to allow that.

Speaker 1:

In so many countries in Europe this is not happening and in the US this is not happening, even in UK, grant, I don't like to criticize the health system. We have a great NHS, the National Health System, which is brilliant good service, good doctors, good physicians, free of charge. I'm sorry, I know in the US is not like that, but there is this big fragmentation. For example, if you go to Manchester you break a leg. In London they don't have your data because they do long tenders with different organizations, different systems, different infrastructures of health IT. So in London they might have Oracle, in Manchester they might have IBM. And who runs the strategy? Perhaps don't think about these issues for the long term.

Speaker 1:

What I really like is the Nordic countries. They plan really well in advance, if you like Norway, finland, denmark, estonia. They have the electronic health systems in one place. They can control in a nice way the population health. In Poland, for example, they allow the startups to do pilots with the hospitals. They're very keen for people to incentivize innovation a lot. So there are many things that US and other European countries can learn from the Nordics.

Speaker 1:

I've been doing health tech consultancy with the Nordics for a long time. They're very big on wearables. If you see, actually all the main wearables innovators come out of Finland. Because they have this culture of innovation, they have this culture of incentive, they have this culture of they. They have this culture of incentive, they have this culture of. They encourage people to take a risk into entrepreneurship, into failing, into having a startup, into so anyway, I think I divert a bit from the healthcare. But coming back slightly to the healthcare, yep, it's a very conservative industry. It's just the way it is. I see the healthcare industry very in comparison with the insurance industry very conservative, slow to change, risk averse, which is understandable. But we should be taking a bit more risks. We can't be in the same place for 20 years. That's not good for anybody, you know. But things are progressing. I see a lot of progress with wearables. I see a lot of progress with it, with innovation. The off systems are adopting technology and and you are in technology, grant you see that thing.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I hear what you're saying, because and we're at this precipice of a major what's a technological platform shift, getting into artificial intelligence and when I explain that I'd say, you know we've been in information technology. Let's just say, for you know 40, 50 years, say the 1980s, all the way. You know we've been in information technology. Let's just say, for you know 40, 50 years, say the 1980s, all the way you know personal compute, social compute or social media and mobile compute, all the way to now 2025. We're going now into what I call intelligent technology. Excuse me, intelligent technology and intelligent technology I mean the machine can also be not just reactive, reactive but proactive. This is going to be a major shift in what we're doing. So your healthcare system can't just sit on the sidelines and watch these things take place because of the human experience. All the way around is changing.

Speaker 2:

Now you're doing wearables. Now, before people weren't monitoring their own healthcare, they would just come in. I would call it very passive, very active, and when they engage with the health care system, now they can be more proactive. Right, having their own electronic health record. Hey, I've got my own record. I'm maintaining my own heart rate rhythms, my breathing or my blood pressure variables. I can do all this myself now, and we all know that wearables can collect massive amounts of data right that could be shared with the healthcare system. I want to know what do you think are the you know, ethical or regulatory challenges we need to solve to build trust I think trust is a big thing and to unlock this full potential for everyone, whether you're patients or you're a provider, or you're an insurance entity, a payer more or less. Do you think wearables in that nature and understanding this intelligent technology platform that's coming online, is it going to make a difference?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, let me share my vision. I was doing um An event with Medtronic this week and they had a new partnership with a wearable company and I've done a keynote around wearables and I've been doing research Grant around wearables for over 10 years. If you see my office desk at home, I had wearables everywhere and people send me wearables to test. But anyway, my vision is that wearables can change the world, certainly the healthcare world, and we came a long way, you know, and I think a lot of things are happening.

Speaker 1:

You know, COVID really highlighted a lot of the. We need to do something different, more preventative. Actually, we can't go to the hospital because it's a lockdown. It's got to be digital, it's got to be an app, it's got to be the transfer of the data. I'm going next week so I need to like make the appointment digitally, all these things. So COVID exposed a new way of doing things digitally.

Speaker 1:

Wearables certainly have a lot of potential. There are ethical implications and I'm going to share with you a piece of research that I've done a while ago in terms of user-related barriers, because, as a, as a user, people don't use wearables because sometimes they don't see the value. They say, oh well, I'm using this. If you are diabetic, you need your insulin pump or this. If you are diabetic, you need your insulin pump, or you know you need your reading and you need your insulin. That's different. You are kind of, in a way, obliged because you have a serious medical condition to use. Apart from that, if you use a wearable, for example a Fitbit I was having a conversation about wearables today If you think wearable is going to be the miracle for you to lose weight, you might be disappointed, because putting a wrist on your arm is not going to make you lose weight.

Speaker 1:

But if you do the work, if you do the walking, the running, the change of behavior, you will lose weight. But it's the other way around. The change of behavior comes before the data. Yes, people think, oh yeah, I have a wearable. The wearables is not the miracle. The miracle is it lies with us, our will, our desire, our self-care, all these things. But the lack of intrinsic motivation is a big barrier. As a user, you need to engage with the wearable in a meaningful way. What is important to you? Ah, for me, important is tracking my sleep. For me, what's important is I want to lose weight. For me, what's important. I want to have more energy, so I need to walk, exercise more. And also, coming back to the ethical aspect, privacy and security concerns. People hear all this speculation. Oh, they sell my data to the pharma companies that just make money with my data, with my wealth. But most of the time, grant we download apps. We don't even read anything. I don't. We download apps.

Speaker 2:

They have all my data anyway.

Speaker 1:

But all of a sudden, I'm very concerned about my health data. To be honest with you, grant, this is just a personal opinion. It's not the world's opinion. But I don't care if you have my data, if you know that I walk 8,000 steps or if I sleep only five hours last night, because what are you? You're not really going to do anything towards me Because you're not really going to do anything towards me, but the benefit on the other side is much greater than the harm. That can be done with you.

Speaker 2:

Sure, that's not what you would call secure data to the point where it's mission critical, but it's good information for the right entity to have to hopefully improve your life. You know that's the whole point. Like people do social media all the time but oh, somebody has that data, like well, yeah, but what do you?

Speaker 1:

you know, what am I going to do with it? How valuable is it for me and also the big tech companies Google they know I log in today on my laptop. They have all your data anyway you know.

Speaker 1:

So all the big players, they know what you're doing. I mean, apple knows that I use my phone 24 hours a day, whatever that is, so then they have all your data anyway. And um there this privacy concern. Also, the wearables are seen sometimes in a wrong manner. That is, this is like the big brother. For example, if you have a wearable in a corporate sense, they think they might be tracking the employees. No, they're actually trying to get the employees to be a bit more active and more less stressed. More productivity, better performance, all these things. The corporates are interested. But also wearables are seeing as the big brother. Oh, now we have a wearable, we know what they are doing, what time they go to bed. Nobody's gonna check rent, what time you're going to bed, but you have a wearable. You're sharing the data. People are concerned about these things. Oh, they know my behavior. They know I'm gonna be out till one o'clock in the morning drinking. They know what time I go home. So all these, sometimes all these things are all speculative. They're not even true, but it's like this big brother world. But all of a sudden you just post on instagram at 12 o'clock at night. People know you are out anyway if they know. But you are concerned about sharing your wearable data? Yeah, so it doesn't make any sense. But it's all these things.

Speaker 1:

Also one thing that wearables are great but they're not perfect, as you know. Yes, also, wearables are very prone to human errors. We forget to charge them. We lose our wearable all oh many times. I left my wearable on the top of the fridge, I forgot to charge. Thank god, I'm very proactive. I go to the gym. Next day I charge again, I get going. But breaking the behavior for um for um a beginner user might be a big thing. Not everybody is motivated like all the time and to use the wearable, so it's a piece of certainly human behavior to do around it. Before Fitbit was sold to Google, they actually bought a coaching company because it's a big gap between it's around the behavior, as I mentioned.

Speaker 2:

I like what you're saying. It's not just the tech, it's not the're saying, it's not just the text, not the metrics, not just the numbers, it's the change in behavior, uh, or or them being able to. You know, as you say, if you, if you can't measure it, you can't manage it right. So the fibbit or rhetoric is a form of measurement, but it should allow you to begin to manage your health, if that is your goal. You want to manage it better and then share that information to someone else. Understanding the difference between private and public information is very important. Like you know, it's it's a thing, but we are in a digital society, we're in a data-centric world right now. So I love what you're doing and what you're talking about is so important. As we talk about the change in healthcare delivery, healthcare policy. Who owns the data? Who doesn't own the data?

Speaker 2:

As I talked about earlier, your wearable could be your own private EHR, but there's some changes going on, like, right now, you might not be able and I've heard this going on and let's say, you're going to get car insurance.

Speaker 2:

Well, they're not going to sell you car insurance if you don't get this type of monitoring that goes along with it. So we can see your behavior, to see if you're low risk, high risk, some of that. You could say, yeah, there could be some big brother to that, you know, or it could be a benefit as well. Hey, you know, I didn't know that was a risky behavior or whatnot, and maybe it makes a change. It could be the same thing like hey, you know what? I'm not going to insure health insurance to Jao because he's drinking and smoking all the time and you know he's driving up the healthcare costs and I'm going to either give him a super high premium or I'm not going to get any insurance at all, or he stopped drinking and smoking and his numbers are coming down and because his numbers are coming down, I'm going to give him a lower premium now. So there's always benefits, but it's getting used to that newer behavior. What do you think?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, there's always benefits, but it's getting used to that newer behavior. What do you think? Yeah, grant, you touched on very important things about like the. You know, I'm actually surprised. I'm going to reveal something with you.

Speaker 1:

I want to talk more about wearables, but I'm actually surprised that in US, of course, there is a big issue around health care the cost, the injustice, the social element. There are different and you know, unfortunately, I was in New York on 4th of December when they murdered the CEO of United Health. Oh, yeah, yeah, I'm not in favor of the healthcare system, but I could never defend someone that murdered a father because I'm pissed off. Okay, great, let's put that aside. But that tells you that there's something fundamentally wrong with the system For someone to go to that extreme. It's something wrong with the system, the cost, the injustice. It's something wrong with the system, the cost, the injustice. If you have health insurance and they don't still want to pay, there is a problem with that. There is certainly, but anyway, but look, wearables could play and will play a very important role in that, because my vision is that eventually don't know this is gonna take, but this is my vision for you, for the you, particularly for the us health system and I have a big idea.

Speaker 1:

I think one day I will do something. I would like to see the power shift and the power go to the hand of the consumer. I'm the consumer, I have my data. I go to the insurer. I say, look, I exercise five times a week. Grant only exercises once a week. Why shall I pay? And Grant smokes? I don't smoke, I exercise five. Why shall I pay the same premium as Grant?

Speaker 1:

So my vision is that wearables eventually will democratize a side of healthcare that is up for disruption. You know the cost, the way it's delivered, delivered. The power shift because now we are even in here in uk and around the world, we are between brackets owned by the professionals. I have a, I have a problem. I go to the professional. For a long time I've been thinking there's nothing wrong with the clinicians. I need the doctor. I'm not a doctor. If I have a problem, I need help.

Speaker 1:

But the power needs to change in healthcare as a whole. The clinician is there to assist you Great, the medical staff are great. But in terms of the way healthcare is structured is wrong. But in terms of the way health care is structured is wrong. So I want to see the patient, the person, the individual, one take more responsibility for the health. Yeah, having more self-care, more good behavior. Wearables can play a part in there because they can assist you. They can help you, they can give you some information. They say I'm sleeping well 7 hours a night, I'm healthy, I lost weight, all these things, the behavior. But then I want, I want that to be a benefit in kind. Perhaps the health insurers will not like me in the future because they have to get more healthy patients and give them a reduction in profit and in premium, so they will not like this power change, but I think it's very necessary one to educate people, not just around wearables but around health as a whole and health is a big thing.

Speaker 1:

Health is a big thing, from nutrition to performance, to sleep. Now is a big trend longevity and I'll reveal another secret for you. I'm writing a book on wearables for longevity Nice. So I see a big trend in longevity. Everybody wants to live longer so you can play with your grandchildren. You want to be healthy. It's not just about living longer, it's about living longer healthy and happier.

Speaker 2:

That's it no point healthier.

Speaker 1:

Healthier is no point living till 90 and then you are sick for 20 years. No, if the point is being healthier and longer. So but wrapping up this little item about my vision for the wearables I want people to one self-care more, getting the benefit from the wellness, the information, the data and everything, but also challenge the system. I have my data. You mentioned your electronic health record. I have my electronic health record. I didn't have any illness for the last five years. I'm really healthy. I want a discount on my premium. I don't want to pay that much. Perhaps the health insurance will not like that grant. But let's use wearables for self-care to help us to be healthier, but to pay less.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, all the way around. It should help everyone because you have less sick people. I know in the US right now, we're running into this problem. We have older population, we have the oldest population that we've ever had. Well, what is that going to mean? That means you're going to have a lot of probably unhealthy people, uh, for a while. So you're going to have to monitor them somehow, uh, in order to understand, kind of where they're at in the different life cycle and their daily experience and what that looks like. But it has to be, you know, ethical monitoring things of that. I think that's what people are talking about the ethics, because some people can use this information wrongly, some people can use it right and there's some, you know, home monitoring that's happening even now because it's just the right thing to do.

Speaker 2:

I want to talk to you about Digital Salutum. That's your company. You have a bold mission and that is to drive transformation into healthcare. If you could, is there any one project or success story from the work that you already are doing that you want to let us know about? That really demonstrates what's possible when innovation and strategy kind of come together. You want to talk about that.

Speaker 1:

Sure Grant. I partner with many great companies all sizes big, small startups big tech brands. All sizes big, small startups, big tech brands. In the past I've done a lot of partnerships with the big technology companies Salesforce, vmware. I had Fujitsu. I had many, many, many well-known tech brands.

Speaker 1:

My mission is more about making healthcare uncomplicated. I would like to make healthcare complicated, free for all, but I'm not that powerful. I'm just one man. But they have this big vision. But with digital salute, my partner in in in in the past with many tech brands.

Speaker 1:

Even recently, I partnered with metronic around wearables, around wearables. Metronic are doing a big thing with with wearables for the hospitals, for the patients, serve people and now the time is right for wearables. But I would say one thing that we've done right with Digital Solutum. We partner with companies and up till now there was a lot of social media thought leadership. I had the YouTube channel. I interviewed 150 leaders in healthcare from around the world. I had the big names in US John Nost, daniel Kraft, big thinkers in healthcare, people that really drive change, eric Tupou the big names in US. I'm an open innovator. I want to create like you. I want to create like you, good discussion, a good disruption, a good challenge, and make healthcare better for all and, eventually, healthcare to be democratized, make people healthier. And you know, coming back very quickly with wearables, your health secretary, robert F Kennedy Jr, recently mentioned wearables. His vision would be give every North American a wearable, make them healthier and let them take responsibility for their health.

Speaker 1:

I think we are going through a big, at least a big shift in thinking. You know people already. Everybody knows there is an issue in healthcare. Everybody knows that we could be healthier. Everybody knows we could be doing something else. Everybody knows that we should be doing more. And you are having these great conversations. Uh, grant, you are doing your part.

Speaker 1:

I believe I'm also doing my part, trying to instigate the conversation with other leaders such as yourself, but we have a long way to go. Do you know? Healthcare is so complex that I always think I'm in the same place all the time. For the last 20 years, I think, well, we are in the same place. I go to an event. People ask about data. When they think about data, I have this reaction, grant oh no, not again, you know, but we are progressing, grant. We are progressing. We are starting to break into the systems to share the data, to open sources to. We are, we are moving, but healthcare is so, is so complex that sometimes it feels like but nothing happened in the last 10 years, which is not true, you know.

Speaker 2:

I think what you just said is so important to understand. Sometimes it's subtle changes that take place and you have to talk to someone else that maybe had a different experience, and then you start to realize, oh, that is different now, it used to be this way or that way. There's still a lot of room for growth. There's another thing I want to ask you as we get to the end of our podcast. Now, you yourself and I'm into personal branding and I love it because it's a great way to get your voice out. It's a platform in which you can then really project your thought leadership where you are, I call in your zone of genius of what you're doing. It's so important. Now you've built this incredible global network. In fact, you call yourself the global connector of titans, which is very awesome. Global connector of titans. I want to ask you what practical advice would you give professionals who want to build a network that truly creates these types of opportunities?

Speaker 1:

Brilliant Grant. That kind of little line there started because I had this idea. I'm a networker, as you know. I could be doing many things networking, branding but I want to stay still in Elf. I want to stay in Elfcat a bit longer because I have this big idea to bring to the world. But, um, I, I started having this idea right, I'm gonna start having um a global elf tech dinners. Invite four, five, six elf tech dinners. That's why I went to new york on the fourth of july, um fourth of um june, december, december when December, when the CEO met the healthcare.

Speaker 1:

I've done a dinner for some health tech leaders Intimate. I've done two in Miami, one in Lisbon, one in London. I've done one in New York. I've done six. I'm planning maybe perhaps one in Dublin and some more other locations. But I want people to talk to each other and I want to bring people together. I like the events, but the events are starting to get a bit. They charge a lot of money and I hear my peers saying well, I went there, I met 30 people, but only two or three people were interested and I can bring that to a dinner, no costs attached. I don't charge you anything, I just bring good people together. That's how the global titans came along. But this is the practical advice, coming back to your question, that I would give. If you are in healthcare or in automobile, car insurance, whatever that is and you want to build a personal brand, this is how I've done it.

Speaker 1:

Anyway, I share from my own experience. I started on LinkedIn 15 years ago. The first two, three years I was not very active because I was doing all the still the sporty stuff personal traveling and then I had an experience with a digital health startup. I started doing a startup with another guy in London and I started hacking on LinkedIn. One, you got to be consistent. Two, you need to identify who are the players in your industry. Oh, health technology there is grant mccall is. Your book is, yeah, identify the big guys by basically, who are the leaders in your industry?

Speaker 1:

Then and Grant, I'm sharing this for personal advice, yes, from personal experience Then you start interacting with them. You comment on their posts, you're getting yourself known. You are nobody Like. Everybody else starts from zero followers, from nothing. All of a sudden, oh, this guy comment on my post, you're getting acknowledged one day. And then, all of a sudden, perhaps I talk to grant, grant, you grant, open the door and then I can tell other leaders I'm also talking to Grant, so that it becomes much easier to reach other people. And then after that, everything, that's how I build my podcast.

Speaker 1:

I managed to get one or two big names, yeah, by communicating with them on LinkedIn, on LinkedIn, and then all of a sudden I tell them actually I already interviewed Grant. Why don't I interview you? Because then it becomes easier, because all the big guys even though this is non-charging but all the big guys, they don't want to be left behind. Yeah, they want to keep on top. Yeah, but anyway, it's about doing things that other people are not willing to do. I know I'm going to get rejected, but I'm going to reach out to Grant. I know Grant is a busy man, but I'm going to reach out to Grant. Grant, would you be interested in doing an interview with me? The worst case scenario is I never hear from you. The good case scenario is I've got an interview with Grant McCown and after that I'm going to become known. I'm going to open the door to go to other leaders and say Grant, I worked with Grant last week and that's basically in simple terms of you built the credibility people.

Speaker 2:

Now you go from an unknown to a known and like well, if, if this person talking, I mean must be worth talking to, and then and then you have to bring. Obviously you still have to bring the value. You have to bring the value of who you are, what you you bring to the table and showcase your expertise and that just solidifies the deal. More or less Matter of fact. I got to wrap up here, but I got to ask you this, joe, because I've been asking all my guests this and I always ask this in the moment that they've had this interview. You've been on a lot of podcasts. You have your own own podcast now. You've had the experience of being with me on the follow brand podcast. How did you feel about your experience?

Speaker 1:

it was brilliant. It was very personal. Uh, you enabled me to come out with the goods, to really focus on, on myself from the inside out. You know I, if you see, I, didn't come here to sell my image or sell my services or sell my. I could be myself. I had a great experience with you and I'm very happy that you invite me and I felt, if I'm honest, I'm not gonna give you this feedback just to make you happy, but I felt like it was a very personal conversation and it was kind of special because I felt good energy being myself with you. So that is really, really good.

Speaker 2:

I love it. I love it. That's why I like doing my podcast, because we can be authentic. Authenticity is big with me and you, man, I'm telling you the information we just shared the pros and the cons of wearables and sharing data and information. All of that came out and these are things that we need to have general conversations about, because most people, they share common ideas and you're like okay, I hear what Grant and Joe are talking about. That's important. We should just take this a step further. So it's not just the corporations that are making decisions for us. It's not just governments that are making decisions for us. We, the people, are making decisions for ourselves and making decisions that are the right choice for us. I love this and I do want the audience to know how to contact you, how to get involved with you, because you're doing such great things. And I tell you, if you're very interested in wearable technology, healthcare technology and, again, personal branding, I think João Boca is the guy you need to talk to. So tell us how to contact you.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, sure, they can find me on LinkedIn, joão Boas. Also, I have the company website, digital Salutem, wwwdigitalsalutemcom, or my personal number, which I'm going to disclose I don't know if this is a good idea Plus 44-773-1983-936, or joao João at digital salute themcom.

Speaker 2:

That is so wonderful and again I want to thank you for being on the follow brand podcast. I want to encourage your entire audience to see all the episodes and follow the brand. There's over two to 300 episodes there. It's a digital community. It is a library of knowledge and information from people like yourself who are sharing expertise and knowledge that can help people get to that next step. You can do so at 5 Star BDM. That is the number 5. That is Star S-T-R BDM. That's B for brand, b for development, infomasterscom. I want to thank you again for being on the show. Thank you so much.

Speaker 1:

Thank you, grant, nice to be with you.