Follow The Brand Podcast with Host Grant McGaugh

Stop the Hassle, Start the Growth: The 4 Buyer Levers That Drive Organic Scale

• Grant McGaugh CEO 5 STAR BDM • Season 6 • Episode 44

Share episode

Send us a text

Buyers choose the path of least resistance, and that truth can either fuel your growth or quietly stall it. We sit down with Vistage Chair and “No Hassle” advocate Jim Bramlett to break down a four-part framework that makes customers stop hesitating: convenience, price transparency, user experience, and trust. From Amazon and Netflix to Uber and Nebraska Furniture Mart, Jim shows how category leaders remove friction so thoroughly that buyers feel they have no excuse not to say yes.

We dig into the Hassle Score and why benchmarking yourself against actual competitors—not your intentions—exposes the real gaps slowing revenue and referrals. Jim shares crisp examples of conscious trade offs between price, convenience, and experience, and then explores how to narrow those trade offs with smarter operating design and practical uses of AI to cut cycle time, clarify quotes, and elevate support without eroding trust. The conversation shifts to the leadership habits that sustain these gains: resilience when plans break, coaching as the core skill of influence, and the surprising power of peer advisory groups where 80 percent of issues center on people, not strategy.

Expect a clear path to uncovering blind spots through better questions, building a culture where vulnerability invites help, and leading across generations with curiosity and clarity. If you’re ready to simplify buying, earn repeat business, and turn word of mouth into a growth engine, this episode gives you the tools and the mindset to start now.

If you found this useful, follow the show, share it with a teammate who owns the customer journey, and leave a quick review to help more leaders discover practical, no-hassle growth.

Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Follow The Brand! We hope you enjoyed learning about the latest trends and strategies in Personal Branding, Business and Career Development, Financial Empowerment, Technology Innovation, and Executive Presence. To keep up with the latest insights and updates, visit 5starbdm.com
.

And don’t miss Grant McGaugh’s new book, First Light — a powerful guide to igniting your purpose and building a BRAVE brand that stands out in a changing world. - https://5starbdm.com/brave-masterclass/

See you next time on Follow The Brand!

SPEAKER_00:

Welcome everybody to the Funnel Brand Podcast. This is your host, Grant McGall, and I am in my Midwest office in Omaha, Nebraska. And I get an opportunity to speak to someone just a little bit south of me in the Super Bowl country, as I call it. Super Bowl country, Kansas City, Missouri. We got Jim Brandley. He is going to talk to us about his strategy, what he does for Vistas Chair that's really, really exciting. He's written a couple books around this. He helps CEOs to get to that next level. And I'd say he's been fairly successful in doing that. So, Jim, would you like to introduce yourself?

SPEAKER_01:

Grant, thank you. Um, yeah, I'm down in uh I'm in a suburb of Kansas City, uh, Chiefs Kingdom, as we like uh uh like to call it. And we've uh we need to get back to our uh winning ways this year for sure. But I uh I'm a Midwesterner by I I grew up in the Midwest, uh, lived here all my life. Um I'm an entrepreneur by uh I don't know by what, by uh just uh experience. I've started seven companies, uh four for myself, three for other large organizations. I like to create new products, new divisions, uh, you know, new services. And about three years ago, I uh started this journey with Vistage, where I I uh coach other leaders, and my mindset's always about growth. Growth as a person, growth as a leader, growth as a business. That's what my true passion is all about.

SPEAKER_00:

I love that, man. And so so this is a no-hassle brand episode, right? The no hassle king, Jim, has just joined us. Now you've you've branded yourself as the no hassle king. And in my own, my my brave blueprint strategy, my own brave blueprint, one key pillar is authenticity, and that's showing up with a clear, bold identity. I want to ask you, how did you arrive at this authentic positioning? How did you help CEOs embrace a brand that feels true to them?

SPEAKER_01:

I uh well, it came from writing my two books. Uh, my my first book was called The Unconventional Thinking of Dominant Companies. And in that book, I I outlined how Amazon became that juggernaut uh that they still are, how they blew past Walmart, how Netflix put Blockbuster out of business, and how Uber decimated uh the cab industry. And I even have I even have uh you'll you'll get this. I even have uh mention, strong mention of Nebraska Furniture Mart. When they when when years ago when they came to Kansas City, they basically put uh every other uh furniture appliance business company out of business, and and so I believe they fought they follow a formula. Um they understand buyer psychology better than anyone. And I took this formula and I translated it into my second book called Stop the Hassle, okay, and therefore parlayed that into the no hassle king. And and here's my formula that I believed Amazon, Netflix, Uber, Nebraska Furniture Mart used, and that every company should and can use. So I believe that and and great you and I are buyers. We may not be professional buyers, that's all we do, but we buy things every day. And I believe there's four major criteria by which we make those buying decisions, uh, by what we buy and from whom. And number one is convenience. As a buyer, uh, we're we're looking for convenience. We want to save time, we want to save effort, we want simple, we want easy. We don't want a more complex life. So, all things being equal, if something's more convenient, we buyers lean that direction. We don't drive across town to get our coffee in the morning, it's gonna be somewhere, somewhere close. Number two is price. We want a competitive price, not necessarily the lowest, but what we really want is pricing transparency. By that I mean we want to know what we're going to spend in advance of that purchase. Therefore, sometimes we get sideways with airlines who have these hidden fees. We, you know, going to a doctor, we don't always know what we're spending, or a hospital, or an attorney. An attorney, we might know that we're spending several hundred dollars per hour, we just never know how many hours, and that makes us uncomfortable. We don't like that. Number three is user experience. We have this need to be treated like we're the uh vendor or seller's only customer. We want responsiveness, we got questions. I want to I want to know right away. I want you to live to whatever commitment you make, if that's a brand promise. Um, I want you to live with that. If it's like going into a retail store, that experience I want, I want well lit, I want clean, I want the shelves stocked, I want adequate uh help in the store, I want to feel safe. So that experience is pretty wide-ranging and based on the type of business you're on. And number four is trust. We want to trust that we when we buy something, we have this perception in our head of what we're getting, and we want to get that. Well, how do we trust that we're going to get that? Guarantees, warranties, testimonials, references, how long they've been in business, did they won awards? Are they specializing in a certain segment? Now, when when you do all four of those, me as a buyer, I don't have an excuse not to you. If you're convenient, price competitively and transparently, you gave me a great user experience, and I trust trust you, I don't have an excuse not to. When you do not provide those, it's creating a hassle. If you're not convenient, if you take me more time than I should spend to buy from you, or your product doesn't save me time and doesn't make my life easier, that's a hassle. When when the price isn't competitive, and especially when it's not transparent, that's a hassle. When I don't get treated well, when that experience, that's a hassle, and then when I can't trust you, that's a hassle. So therefore, stop the hassle. I preach all the time. The better you understand we buyers, the better you as a company can match your offering to what we're looking for, and stop that hassle. And you will grow organically when you do that. People will tell other people, hey, I bought from Grant and it was great. The experience was great, pricing was competitive, it was very convenient, and I can trust it because he had guaranteed. So people will talk to other people and make it viral when you deliver on all four. Mostly, though, most companies have a conscious trade-off where they're going to give up one of those in exchange for another. So, you know, I give you this example, Jeffy Lube. They're going to give you convenience, but it's going to come at a cost. Walmart's going to give you very low prices, but hope you like checking yourself out. The stores aren't necessarily, you know, as clean and organized as, say, a target seemed to be. Uh, Nordstrom, going to give you great experience, great merchandise, stores, personal shoppers, but again, comes at a price. So, so most companies have some conscious trade-off because it's very difficult to hit on all four. It just but those who have, you know, we just don't have excuses not to buy from them. And and they're so so that's what my books are all about. That's what I preach, that's why I'm I refer to myself as the no hassle king.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I tell you, and and you've been you're being kind because I as you as you take us through that that type of framework that you just gave us, and I started thinking about my own experiences, especially recently, like with the with the airline, right? Oh my. And then, but are you getting the repeat business? Because if you hassle people too much, you know, you'll probably lose that business, right? That's what it comes down to, right? And I saw your your book, and I happen to to to to look at this because I think it's so important. You have what you call the the hassle score, and you kind of introduce this in your book. And I know one of my pillars is it's all about uh excellence. And if we try to strive for excellence, what you just alluded to, which is about creating you know measurable frameworks for success. That's what my excellence is all about. My question for you is this how can leaders apply, especially companies that you just talked about, apply your hassle score, and maybe we're talking about the CEO level, you know, as they apply this hassle score to drive excellence at both customer and employee e-experiences.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, um, because it all starts with the leader. So my hassle score, I say this there is no national standard for convenience, no national standard for user experience, no national standard for for trust or price. So I tell leaders it's all about measuring yourself against your most direct competitors. And I use this analogy, Grant. We kind of already talked about it a little bit, so I'm gonna use this analogy again. Obviously, I'm a huge Andy Reed fan. Yeah. Andy Reid doesn't show up at Arrowhead Stadium on Sunday morning and go, let's see, who are we playing? Uh, I wonder if they like to run the ball, pass the ball. I wonder uh what kind of defense they they play. They play zone, man, cover two. Uh well, I guess we'll just find out. No, he knows, they know who they're playing, they study them, and they find out their weaknesses, and they try and exploit their weaknesses, just like that team's gonna try and exploit the the chiefs' weaknesses. So I tell leaders, understand your competitors, study them, buy from them. How convenient was it? How were they priced? What kind of experience? How did you trust them? How do you stack up against those competitors? Because guess what? If you do not stack up well, you're gonna invite a startup, a competitor who's gonna say, wait a minute, this company or this industry has a weakness. You know, the cab industry had so many weaknesses that Uber said, Man, we're we're gonna exploit that. We're gonna use cars that people drive every day. We're not gonna have plexiglass. They're gonna come to you, we're gonna sell them the price exactly what it's gonna be in advance. When you get to the destination, you just walk away. You don't have to fumble, have the have the cabbie say cash, cash, you know. Yeah, yeah. They made that experience so much better. Um, and and so when you don't pay attention to your competitors and you don't hit on those four criteria, you're inviting startups and competitors to come in. But the ball, the target is always moving. I I said just because you started and you were very convenient doesn't mean you can just oh got that done. No, you have like AI. How can you leverage AI to take costs out to reduce price, or can you leverage AI to be more convenient? Can you leverage it to be provide a better experience? Constantly be evaluating that. So that's what I preach.

SPEAKER_00:

That is so important as you brought that up because you've got to have an understanding, especially when you're going against you know the other the team on the other side of the ball is definitely coming to exploit your weaknesses, right? Now you've gone from running logistics firms to coaching CEOs. And then in my model, when I when in this particular model, I talk about resilience, right? Because you've got to be resilient. What you just alluded to, even though you might have, hey, no, we've got this running and it's it's operating, but you got to go back and then retweak what you're doing because it's constantly changing. The ball is constantly moving and shifting and changing. If you ever watch an NFL game, you'll go from the first quarter to fourth quarter, and you'll begin to see how they almost reinvent themselves on the field sometimes because of the challenges that they face. My question is this What challenges did you face in that transition from logistic firms to coaching CEOs? And then how can leaders build resilience when stepping into a new identity or role?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, my transition was not easy. Um uh, you know, I had never I had never been a an executive coach before. And I kind of thought I knew what coaching was, but I didn't. And I have I have taken training, uh, multiple steps of training to understand what coaching really is, so much so that I encourage I encourage my leaders to become coaches. I believe the very best leaders are coaches. Yeah, and again, I'm I hate to go back to uh to another football and Andy Reed analogy, but I will. You know, uh I I tell people that I don't listen to Andy Reid press conferences. I don't need to because I I can tell you exactly what he's gonna say. If they take a loss, well, that's on me. I didn't give them enough play, I didn't have them ready. If there was a player who struggled, he's gonna say, oh, he's a great kid, loves the game, works his tail off. And that's exactly why players love playing for him. And and I I told this story to my my CEOs one day. I walked in and I started the meeting this way. Hey, do any of you know where Steve Spagnolo went to school? Nobody did. I said, okay, he went to Springfield College. I don't even know which Springfield. Do any of you know what position he played for Springfield College? Nobody knew. Okay, he was a wide receiver. Do any of you know if he played in the NFL? They didn't know. No, he didn't. So tell me this. How did Steve Swagnolo, one of the most respected defensive coordinators in the NFL, who played on the offensive side of the ball, become one of the most respected and best defensive coordinators in the NFL? Who is inspiring and coaching multimillionaires? And he's inspiring him so much, they went out and created a t-shirt said, in spags we trust. How many of you have any of your employees or team create a shirt that in you we trust? They I said, so it's all about inspiring. You can't force anybody to improve, you can't force anybody to do their best, you can't force them to be motivated. You have to inspire them, and that that is coaching. So, but to your second part of the question on resilience. I get asked this a lot. They say, Jim, what's the best piece of advice you would give to an entrepreneur, um, you know, a leader? And and I say this: I said, I've started seven companies over my career, and not a one of them has gone according to plan. Yep, we create these elaborate financial forecasts, these business plans, these strategies, and you they never they never go according to plan. It always takes much longer, it's always much harder. Something that you can't control, well, it might be a pandemic, could be tariffs, something is going to happen where where it's gonna throw you back, you're gonna have bumps in a road, and you got to be resilient, you've got to have grit. Okay, but if you know it's not gonna be a smooth road, if you know there are gonna be bumps, plan on it, and know that you've got to pull on that resilience string when it hits. Uh, that's the advice I give them. So you're exactly right. The the very best leaders have to be resilient because not every day is all sunshine and and orange juice. It's it's it can be some real challenges thrown your way.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, big time. And and to your point, it it's sometimes you just underestimate the the challenge that you're going to have. What you just said, especially I call the mountain of resilience that you're gonna go against. Now, what the cool factor is if you have someone like yourself who's gone through this type of uh adversity, or they they they've had to tell their story around resistance, and they can tell you just by looking at you, like, look, you're gonna have to do some things to make some changes because you're not at a level that you're gonna be able to power through the things that you're going to come across, right? So at the heart of what I call my my brave framework of vision, and that's seeing beyond yourself because you've got to be able to do that. My question is how does this peer advisory model expand a CEO's vision, and what makes it more powerful than working with a single consultant?

SPEAKER_01:

Oh yeah, great, great question. Uh so when when I started down this path, it it occurred to me this analogy or or example. I said, for anybody who's become a parent, when you walk out of the hospital after the second or third day with that newborn, the hospital did not give you this binder on here's everything you need to do and know for the next 20 years on how to raise a child. They they don't do that. Oh my god, if I'm a first-time parent. All right, so okay, I might I might lean on mom and dad, okay. But you know what? At the end of the day, that's a whole different generation. They're not living with me on the front lines, they don't really understand. So, what do you do? You go consult other parents, and I mean you do that throughout their entire adolescent journey. Well, Johnny's not doing his homework, or Susie's not, you know, uh eating right, and and they got this, that it's it's a peer group appearance. And so I say that the same thing applies in in business. When you can surround yourself with trusted and other like-minded leaders, and they may not be in your particular industry, that doesn't that doesn't really matter. Matter of fact, we don't allow that in in our business group, but you're gonna get a lot of different perspectives, you're gonna get a lot of different experience, and you're gonna get a lot of different brain power. And and if you go it alone, you think you know all the answers, and you got all the answers, it's gonna be a rough journey. Where if you've got others you can trust and say, and be vulnerable, hey man, I'm having this struggle, um, and I just want others to kind of weigh in and help me. You're gonna get a lot of knowledge and a lot of input that that will help you. And I believe every it's it in the the old adage, it's lonely at the top. That is very, very true. You might have a team, but that team has their own, they're they have their own uh agenda, if you will, their own dreams. And so sometimes it's lonely. You just need somebody to vent with, right? Just somebody's to have that have an ear for you. Well, that's what a peer group really is all about, and and you will get a lot of wisdom. Um, you you'll get a lot of best practices, you know, shared that will help you along this difficult journey of leadership. Uh, and and so that's that's the power of a peer group, and we call it a peer advisory uh group because you're giving advice to each other all the time. And and and we go through a process, Grant. Uh we we meet once a month. I I ask my leaders, I want you to take a full day to work on your business, not in it. And and we do a part of that meeting we we call issue processing. Who's facing a challenge? Who's facing the issue? Well, guess what? 80% of those issues are about, it's about people, and that's a dynamic that's if people are that that's a that's a that's a wild ride when you have lots of different people with lots of different personalities and behaviors, and and leaders have to deal with with that. And so they they will really consult with each other. Well, how do I handle this kind of behavior and that kind of behavior and and and the like?

SPEAKER_00:

No, that's important. The the human intelligence, the HI in the room. I think we are starting to really understand that component as we as the world kind of engages in artificial intelligence even today, and they're starting to realize artificial intelligence and how it works is more problemistic, meaning it doesn't always come out with the exact same answer every single time. There's deterministic, and then there's um what AI is doing is giving you um options and answers for every single thing. But the human element is kind of the same. You can say the same thing to the to the same group of people, and you'll probably get 10 different uh understanding and and variables uh as a part of it. You're like, wow, did I say 10 different things? I don't think so, but that's what you're dealing with. Now, you said something I think is so important, that is that CEO, the isolation and the vulnerability of the position that you're in. And I know that leaders often feel pressure to always project strength. And in my brave work, I emphasize boldness through vulnerability. My question is how do you create a space where CEOs can be bold enough to be vulnerable? And what breakthroughs usually happen as a result of that?

SPEAKER_01:

It's hard. You know, you you nailed it. Um leaders believe they have to be the strong person, and I believe all too often they put on this facade. I got this, I'm tough, I've made it, I'm gonna make this happen. And and they there are too many leaders who I believe vulnerable they think vulnerability is weakness, okay. But you know what happens when you are truly vulnerable? Guess what we humans want to do? We want to help. And whether it's in a peer group where you come and say, hey, folks, I've got this challenge, and I think I know what I want to do, but I'm not really sure. I just want some help. You know what? When you go to your employees and your team and say, Team, we're facing this challenge. I think I know what we ought to do, but I really want your input because I'm not a hundred percent sure. That's vulnerability, but guess what they're gonna want to do? They're gonna want to help you, even though you're the leader. It's not any sign of a lack of disrespect. We humans have this nature where we want to reach out and help others, but you gotta you gotta send the signal that I do, I am looking for help, and that's vulnerable. So it's really hard to get some leaders, you know, past that I'm tough, I'm strong, I got this, I'm gonna do it. And to being, hey, I don't have all the answers. And I claim that vulnerability, if you're vulnerable, you want to learn. Yeah, vulnerable people read books, they listen to others, they they strive to learn. So the best leaders are lifelong learners, they're curious, so they they want more and more information. And and but there are people out there, and I've met them. Nope. And they're not gonna show any vulnerability, and they put this facade on it's fake.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and you know that's already kind of you know, BS in the background. Like, nah, everybody needs some assistance and some help. Like, you have a certain skill set, a certain uh strength that you have, but in any SWOT analysis, right? There's strengths, there's weaknesses, there's opportunities, and there's threats. And we all have these things, it's just do you understand where you sit in relation to all those things at one time. Now, one thing I liked about yourself, you talk about the question you can't Google. You say you can't Google what am I not doing that I should be doing, and in my framework and brain, that relates to vision and excellence, and that's seeing blind spots before they become barriers. If you could, could you share a story where asking that question changed a leader's trajectory?

SPEAKER_01:

Um yeah, I um boy, the about the blind spot? Yeah. Um it's it it takes here here's my experience. Um in in a in a CEO peer advisory group, number one, people who get come into the group, they've got to trust the group first. So they're not they're not going to open up, and it's hard to figure out their blind spot if they don't open up and trust. So what I do is I do one-on-one coaching with each of my leaders. And you know, in my you know, coaching training, I've I've learned how to ask the questions that need to be asked, the right questions, the non-judgmental questions, getting them to open up. Because what what we're what I've learned is that everybody makes a decision, or every decision is made based on values and beliefs. Okay. Well, guess when those values and beliefs were really formed. They're formed as in our younger years, okay. That's especially being raised by your parents, you start getting your values, you start believing things, and and and and that's how and and so then there become, you know, there are self-limiting beliefs. And again, this is a little bit of a vulnerability, where they have a belief that limits themselves. And so, as a coach, in the questions I ask, I have to get down into an emotional level. What do you what's really going on here? Is that what you really truly believe? What makes you believe that? And what if that wasn't true? How would you react? Okay, so by getting deep on a one-on-one, because I think a blind spot is really kind of a self-limiting belief in some sense, but getting into those deep questions, getting them in into thinking about well, what value, what belief is driving what you're thinking? And is it really true? Let's let's and and if you and if this wasn't true, how would you react? And just going through that that back and forth, getting them into that mindset is what becomes really, really important in my mind to eliminate the blind spots.

SPEAKER_00:

That is uh you know it there. Uh, I think anybody listening to this, they need to rewind, hit the rewind button to it again, because getting deep uh beyond uh the surface really. Seeing what's uh beneath um your feelings, your the thoughts that you have, your your daily habits is so important. I always look at the iceberg effect. Only 30% of an iceberg is visible, 70% is on is is not visible and it's underneath the surface, but sometimes you don't always get a chance to see that, so you can help somebody to be able to see certain things and make adjustments and then they can move forward. Now you you go to platform as a speaker and a thought leader, and I'm all about boldness, I'm all about authenticity as keys to personal branding. And if you would like just share some advice that you would give to leaders who want to stand out as an authentic voice in their industry.

SPEAKER_01:

Uh my if they want to be uh okay, I'll I'll say this. I'm gonna start here. Yeah, because this is one of the challenges with leaders. Most leaders get in their position due to a skill set, an expertise, or knowledge. Oh, I I I graduated school with an engineering degree, I became really good with that, I started my own company, now I'm the leader. Okay, and and if you go back and ask them, well, how much real leadership training did you get? Where did you learn to motivate, inspire, influence other people? Because at the end of the day, I don't care what business you're in, you're in a people business. You've got customers who are people, you've got employees who are people, you've got vendors who are people. How do you deal with people? Where did you get that training? Okay, and and so um, and this is what I encourage them. I say, hey, if you work with me, I'm I'm gonna try and help you become a coach. And especially in this multi-generational workforce that that leaders deal with. I joke about this. You you can tell I got a little bit of gray hair. I'm a I'm a boomer. Yeah, and I and I joke about this. Being a boomer, I grew up in the carrot and the stick era, but I don't remember the carrot, I do remember the stick.

SPEAKER_00:

That's right.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, Gen Z and Millennials, they all they all have different values and they think differently. And and as a as a leader, you've got to understand that. What are their overall values? What how do they really think? And and so by coaching, becoming a coach, learning how to ask the questions, um, and engage them the way they really want to be engaged, uh, you know, that that's a skill you're not probably, you know, have learned in school or maybe beyond. It it takes post-education, real life education, um, you know, uh, to do that.

SPEAKER_00:

I tell you, this this has been wonderful, Jim. We're coming to the conclusion of our podcast, and I always like to do this in the moment. I like to ask my guest, how did they feel uh during this interview? Meaning, you've been on, you've done a lot of different uh podcast interviews, you've talked to a lot of different people, you've been on stages. This is your first opportunity to be on the Follow the Brand podcast with Grant McGaugh. What kind of feedback would you give me?

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, I I love I, you know, I've been on a lot of podcasts and nobody'd asked me about resiliency. Okay. Um, so uh uh and I I love that from you because you recognize what it takes. And I think out of any uh, you know, that that has got to be in one of the top three characteristics or traits of a leader because it isn't always gonna go your way. So that's what I appreciate about you, just reminding me, you know, reminding me of that, um, and how important it is. And and you know, I think I don't know, maybe maybe I'm maybe I'm biased, but today's world I think it's too easy to quit. Okay, there's there's just too many, too many exit avenues you can take. Yeah, you gotta know when to quit, but have you been resilient enough to try every avenue you can try? Have you gotten help um from others so that you know you can be more resilient and keep at it? Um I I had a mentor early uh in my professional career that told me, before you can succeed, you must fail. You don't know what success is, and I've I've kept that, and I have failed. And I appreciate uh every little success that I that I hope I get.

SPEAKER_00:

No, you that is so first of all, it's very authentic. Um, and the resiliency factor is paramount even in in today's world, in 2025, in a world that you can get instant gratification, and you think that everything is just very, very simple. You can just go to the store, grab you something to eat and go home. You don't realize that farmer worked a lot of hours to produce those things, and every everything along that supply chain had to be you know just right in order for you to have that kind of uh uh very quick result. And I love how you said it, you know, in the very beginning of this podcast, those four elements of success that is very difficult. It's a constant moving target. So if you're not resilient in what you're doing and you come across a little bit of failure, and I think you know, my my 62 years now on this planet, I've known more failure than success. But I think it's relevant, it's relative, right? How do you see failure? How do you see success? A lot of times it's just a learning experience, and you don't want to think about this. Like, you know what, in order to learn that skill, it's really gonna take you three to five years, not three to five weeks, you know. So it's sometimes like you can accept that or or or or not. Um, but if you do your your research and your due diligence, you'll see that most people, if you really peel back that onion and go back to that iceberg effect I talked about and talk about, hey, you're seeing, you know, you talk about the Amazons and the eBays and that, and you don't realize they lost money. They were you in relative thing, they were very they were failures for a long time, but they were failing forward. And then, but these they they stayed at it. And I tell people, you know, read Bezos' story. I think it was like 10 years, they made no money, right?

SPEAKER_01:

He was vilified for burning cash, but he was steadfast that the customer was atop of the chain, and boy, you talk about resilient. That's a great lesson in resiliency, right there. I love you mentioning that.

SPEAKER_00:

Absolutely, absolutely. So before we conclude, you know, you've got to tell us how to to contact you, tell us you know, a little bit, you know, because this is the I think people that are listening to this are saying, hey, I think I can utilize these services. So tell a little bit about Vistics, what they can do, and then how they can contact you.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, uh, I'm a Vista chair. You can find me through Vistage.com. I'm a very active LinkedIn user. So find me, Jim Bramlett, there. My website is uh jimbramlett.com, and I have a second website called strategies to grow.com. So you can reach out to me. I I love helping. Uh uh, I'm a servant leader. Anything I can do to help others, I'm going to do. So please reach out and I'm happy to help. And Grant, thank you for what you do, uh, helping uh leaders and others think through life because it's it's a it's a challenge.

SPEAKER_00:

It absolutely is, but when we can share, you know, this is kind of a peer discussion between uh myself and yourself, and this is how we all get better and we can move forward in understanding our journey. And I encourage your entire audience to to listen to all the episodes on Follow Brand at Five Star BDM. That is the number five. That is B for brand, D for Development Informasters.com. This has been wonderful. I want to thank you again and much success to the Kansas City Chiefs.

SPEAKER_01:

Thanks, Grant.

SPEAKER_00:

You're welcome.